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Hi
Since my GL1100 motor seems to burn more oil than gas I bought a low milage efi GL1200 motor.
I was hoping to complete this project this winter but not sure if it will be ready for the riding season or not, if not I'll run the old motor till next winter.

Bought the motor without the ECU and will upgrade to a modern system instead.
The ECU that I have is a MaxxECU mini, local company that makes it.
Got hold of some injectors, bought them mainly because they are Honda red
Bosch 340CCflow rate high ohm Did not realize until after I got them that they are physically different to the originals, only time will tell if they will leak or not.
Will be running a return less fuel system so I can run the pump straight of the tanks pet cock and at the same time get a much lower power draw from the pump itself.
I got a PWM controller for the pump and with some shoehorning(dremel) I could fit the sensor where the old pressure regulator was sitting. The barbed hose nipple might be for reading the atmospheric pressure but not for fuel. And here's a pic showing what it could look like when you give it 5minutes of love: Will be needing to replace the timing wheel on the crank to a 36-1 wheel instead of the original 8teeth wheel.
This might be a custom part since nothing on the market seems to fit
I might be able to keep the crank sensor, my ECU is compatible with both VR and HALL sensors for the crank trigger.
The cam sensor needs to be replaced with a HALL sensor though since I can only have VR on the crank.
Not sure if I can use the original cam trigger wheel or not, but cam wheels seems much easier to DIY anyhow.
I've seen there are really small HALL sensors available, no idea about performance.
https://www.maxxecu.com/store/engine-co ... t-mounting
That sensor would fit inside of the original cam sensor housing without issues.

Always fun to change what Honda did back in the day. Pretty much a necessity to change a few parts to make everything work right. Keep up the good work!

Interesting project. Will be following.

The picture of the fuel sensor at the ending of the fuel rail where the original FPR was has a hose barb for that connects to the engine vacuum system, may need this for the new install. I installed an adjustable FPR system with a fuel tank return.

The new fuel system has a back flow preventer and small fuel filter installed before the fuel rail. There is a fuel pressure connection on the right side fuel rail used for checking the original fuel system pressure. I use it for the fuel pressure gauge that is installed.

The injectors will probably not leak if there is a good seal between the injector o-ring and the injector holder. Where the injector fits at the bottom just needs a good seal with the oversized o-rings.

The injector size is about right, will be able to calibrate the VE table to accommodate the injector size. OEM fuel injectors are 284 or 315 cc/min depending on the service shop you use. I use the 315 cc/min number for my new ECU upgrade project (1200 '85 FI CFI system upgrade/modernization project) and have a fuel pressure of approximately 43 PSI (3 bar) - injectors are tested at this pressure.

Would recommend a Bosch 211 coil driver for the install. Has 4 ignition channels and can be used later on for sequential ignition. Bosch 211 picture: The engine has two cam sensors on the rear of the right cylinder head. If the MaxxECU mini can use a crank and cam sensor in a dual wheel configuration, recommend connecting. The cam signal provides the ECU with engine phase timing for more accurate fuel and ignition timing even if using wasted spark and paired injectors. Even if you do not use a cam sensor at the start, keep the functionality and just make it look as per original. You need to have the cam sensor unit in place otherwise when the engine is running, it will leak oil.

The OEM CFI cam VR sensors do not provide a consistent, reliable signal to the ECU. Socrace on this forum found this to be an issue as did I. Have changed to hall sensors for crank and cam ECU signals, works well. The hall sensor is a Cherry GS100701 fits where the OEM cam and crank sensor(s) are installed - aftermarket ECUs only use one cam sensor input. You can use the original cam shaft trigger wheel. Picture of Hall effect cam sensor: . Cover fits with no modification. For cam and crank Hall effect sensors, I used 1" aluminum angle.

You can use the original OEM coils in a wasted spark configuration. Initial coil dwell for these is 4.5 ms for cranking, and 3.5 ms for running. Can dial these in for better operation later on with some experimentation.

You mention using a 36-1 missing tooth in place of the 8 tooth crank trigger wheel. The specs for the MaxxECU mini indicates that it can do sequential fuel and ignition. If this is the case, you should be able to use the original 8 tooth crank trigger wheel in conjunction with a cam shaft signal. Crank VR sensor can be used - provides the ECU with a consistent reliable signal. This is a picture of the Hall effect sensor in place of the original VR sensor: The 36-1 missing tooth trigger wheel is available, bought mine from a company in Australia. You will need to accurately drill the centre hole to fit on the crank. Notch the trigger wheel and use a small key to secure it to the crank shaft - keeps it from turning. You need a 75 mm diameter trigger wheel. Picture: Is there a TPS sensor on the left front throttle plate linkage? If so, can be used for your installation. Any three wire sensor that can be installed can be used.

What O2 sensor are you going to use? WBO2 sensor is recommended.

Did the engine come with the OEM idle air control (IAC) system intact? If so should be able to use instead of installing a different IAC system. You compensate for the additional air into the cylinder when calibrating the VE table.

Timing the engine once you have calculated an initial trigger angle is a PITA using the engine case timing opening. I made a small mod at the front of the engine behind the left timing belt. No oil to play with and easy to check engine timing. Picture of timing mod: The throttle linkage that connects the two sides allows you to balance the engine cylinder banks so that each cylinder bank is doing approximately the same work. You cannot balance an individual cylinder bank because of the engine vacuum connections.

You may need to change the shaft line to accommodate the 1200 engine, it is different than the 1100.

I have additional pictures of what I have mentioned.

Still working on my CFI system upgrade/modernization. In the road trial/calibration phase. Lots to learn.

Thanks for the write up Red, been following all your threads both here and on classicgoldwings.
According to the maker of the pwm pump controller the frp does not need to be connected to the engine vacuum, but we'll see once it is installed.
Injector sizing I got from your threads as well so it's no wonder they match
Not sure if I will go sequential on ignition or not, wanted to to coil on plugs first but I don't want the coils to stick up from the cylinder head and that will probably be very hard to realise.
But I have found a one unit package that has internally four coils and igniters instead,
Bosch 0986221049 I'll give it a go with the original VR crank sensor and wheel, but I guess the 8tooth wheel will be severely lacking in resolution compared to a 36tooth wheel, but it might be good enough.
Fueling will be sequential, but I will ditch the orignal cam sensors and install a hall sensor instead, will also try to get it the cam sensor running in half moon since that seems to be the easiest on the ECU to sync the engine.
Found these really small hall sensors that can be virtually mounted everywhere: TPS sensor is installed and I've hooked it up to the ECU for testing and it worked fine as well.
Going to run two WBO2, one for each cylinder bank.
I think the IAC system is complete, I have bought two sets of intake manifolds and air chambers and there were a lot of hoses and stuff with it

Saw your timing retrofit on classicgoldwings and that is in fact gold without your threads I don't think I would be taking this project on so light heartedly

wingrider wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2025 8:56 pm Always fun to change what Honda did back in the day. Pretty much a necessity to change a few parts to make everything work right. Keep up the good work!

Thanks!
Yeah, the old system might work but it is far from optimal.

Thanks for the favourable comment.

Hall effect sensors: need a magnet to activate the sensor. The Hall effect sensor I use has the magnet already part of the sensor, no need to experiment or find a spot for the magnet; just connect to the system and use - PnP so to speak.

The 8 tooth trigger wheel signal is very good. Talked to the Microsquirt people at the start of my project before I picked Speeduino and was told that the 8 tooth trigger wheel was good to use in a dual trigger wheel setup.

Have to disagree with the old system not being up to modern day systems. A downside of the older OEM CFI system is the ECU, not being able to connect to the ECU and adjust/recalibrate the engine tune, and CFI component data is not available, otherwise everything is identical. The original CFI system had a diagnostic program as part of the ECU programming, not so today. Have to connect a CanBus system to the ECU of choice for a similar feature. The get home features, dual cam shat sensors, two PB (pressure balance) MAP sensors. Many other good features for the day and for today as well. The owner is limited in what can be done after the fact.

Sequential ignition is good. COP units can be used as coil-near-plug (CNP). Space for the COP units on my '85 FI model is tight so I have had to be creative as to where the units are placed. Wasted spark will provide just as good performance and fuel economy if you want to keep the initial installation as simple as possible. I have mentioned using an aftermarket ECU that will allow you to future proof the system; ie sequential fuel and/or ignition down the road. I would start with wasted spark and paired fuel injectors to start, get the engine tune calibrated/setup, components dialled in, ride for a bit and then if you want to branch out, go for it.

Firing order is 1/3/2/4. For wasted spark cylinders 1/2 are on the same coil, cylinders 3/4 are on the same coil. Paired fuel injectors are cylinders 1/3 and cylinders 2/4. The amount of time between cylinder firings is extremely quick.

What happens is:

Cylinder firing for wasted spark is number 1 cylinder from #1 coil. Cylinder 3 fires from coil #2, coil #1 is charged. Cylinder 2 fires from #1 coil, #2 coil is charged. Cylinder #4 fires from coil #2, #1 coil is charged. This cycle then repeats itself. Fuel will be injected as required. In a Port fuel injector configuration that you will be using, the fuel does not sit in the intake runner very long. Atomizes quite well because the fuel is sprayed almost directly onto the cylinder intake valve.

COP/CNP units such as the LS1 models have internal coil drivers and is a good option for CNP installs. The data for this unit can be found on the Speeduino forum.

Have investigated using two O2 sensors. Most aftermarket ECUs can only use the input from one WBO2 sensor. The second WBO2 sensor would use an analogue input and be tracked as a separate input under a different name. I queried this because the WBO2 sensor I have installed only samples one cylinder bank. The second is to determine if the feeling for each cylinder bank is relatively close.

You can check this without a second WBO2 sensor by reading the spark plugs. If the spark plugs after being taken apart are similar the engine fuelling is probably quite good. I mentioned that there is a cylinder bank balance screw on the throttle linkage that can be used to balance the two cylinder banks so that each is cylinder bank is doing the same amount of work. Connect vacuum gauges to the individual cylinders and ensure that each cylinder vacuum is as close as possible. The cylinder vacuum will be about 9" of HG.

The IAC system wrks well. Hold developed it for the 1200 FI models because without it and during deceleration, the engine would not operate correctly - starved for combustion air, also at idle. This is the IAC system: Sequential fuelling/ignition is good, but can be overkill. It is used for environmental emissions at idle and low powers. Once the engine is at cruise or above, sequential fuelling does not play a big part in engine performance/efficiency. Paired fuel injectors work well with a well calibrated VE (fuel) and spark (ignition) table. I have sequential fuel and ignition and did it because I could.

You can use a generic spark (ignition timing) table to get started, then dial it in for optimum power and fuel economy. The 1200 CFI engine has a timing range from 10 to 45 degrees BTDC. Idle timing is at 11 degrees BTDC. Idle timing can be quite different from what Honda has specified because you will not be replicating the Honda engine tune. Idle timing starting at 15 degrees BTDC is a good place to start. 35 degrees at 3500. If you have say 6 RPM increments between idle and 3500 RPM, each RPM setting will be separated by about 3 degrees. Gets you gong, after which you will calibrate the timing settings.

Fuelling is the most important first step after starting the engine, timing is number one. The plugs should look like this - spark plug taken apart: I did a comparison between this plug and one I took out of my 2008 Ford Escape. The plugs were similar in colour and the black fuel ring was the same. This indicates to me that the VE (fuel) table for the 1200 engine is being calibrated correctly.

Change the crank sensor to a Hall effect sensor as well. Will not have to be concerned with a VR signal conditioner. Something like using high impedance fuel injectors. A resistor pack is not required, simplifying the install.

Cheers

Red mentioned the output shaft is different than the 1100, which is correct. The 1200 does not have a snap ring groove to hold it in place as the 1000 and 1100 do. So, you get to either pick one up and switch it out or pull the one from your 1100 when you are done with it.

You are lucky that you got an EFI engine. If you happened to piece one together, you may have ended up with an 87 model, which changed the size of the output shaft and you can no longer just switch them out with an older model...You need to cut the groove in the 1200 one, which from what I understand, is very hard. I had someone machine mine for me.

Wondering if the shaft and the rear differential from a 1200 will fit in the 1100 shaft line - length wise.

The air chamber for an '85/'86 CFI engine (both are the same) is specifically made for the engine width. It can be used on an 1100 or 1000 GW engine but the air chamber must be shortened width wise. Socrace's thread on his conversion details this change.

Electrical power: the 1200 FI model has a 500 watt alternator assembly. The alternator assembly is regarded as a three piece alternator; internal rotor and stator, external regulator/rectifier. Have you been able to test the alternator assembly.

I have the external alternator mod. There are many examples out there but the cleanest/neatest one I have seen is a 1000 GW prepped for an iron butt tour: An EFI install requires a constant/reliable power source, an EFI system is a power pig. When the power is not sufficient the EFI system may do some unwanted things. The battery is a key component and should always be in good condition. Recommend not having a battery in for more than four years, regardless of battery condition.

You can consider a separate accessory fuse block for the EFI system. It is necessary to have the ECU, fuel injectors and coils on the same power source because there should be a voltage correction table for the fuel injectors and coils. Need these three components on the same wave length so to speak.

The WBO2 sensor would be provided power from this fuse block as well. There are many inexpensive 6 circuit fuse blocks with an integral ground plane available.

When you wire the ECU, use a separate EFI wire harness from the OEM wire harness. Simplifies troubleshooting. The new wire harness can be checked for ground faults. Disconnect the wire harness from the ECU. Check for continuity between the ECU ground and sensor ground(s). No continuity - good, continuity - not so good need to rectify.

I had this issue. Grounds not being used for sensors and such need to be tied to the main ECU ground. Connect a ground wire from the EFI accessory fuse block to the battery or engine grounding point. Connect the fuel pump ground and fuel pump relay ground to this wire, as well as all unused ECU grounds. This should rectify any ground faults in the system. You do not want to use the OEM wiring harness because the grounding circuit can provide unwanted noisy signals to the ECU (it is some 40 years old), not a good thing, and the grounding circuit to the battery is convoluted going from the wiring harness, to the frame to the engine grounding point, then to the battery. You want the EFI grounding circuit to go to the engine grounding point then to the battery - cut out the middle man.

If you are keeping the OEM charging assembly, consider upgrading the RR to a series RR from the shunt type RR.

This is the latest EFI schematic:
Cheers

You guys really impress me … you live in a world I’ve never even visited !!

Gord

Necessity is the mother of invention. Theailer is going to have a nice ride when done. Have done some research on the MaxxECU Mini, nice unit.

Imentioned that the 36-1 trigger wheel is available. This is the Ebay site: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/274413145796?_s ... R_iF1piIZQ
Bought two because I tried to do the drilling myself and went off-centre. Second one I took to a local machine shop. The trigger wheel is sandwiched between the crankshaft pulleys, but could turn/move and throw the engine timing off, small key between trigger wheel and crankshaft ensures this does not happen.

Drill centre hole to fit crankshaft and notch for a small keyway. This pic shows the hole drilled and notched for a small key: The red square indicates the small key needed.

Theailer: if I am posting too much info let me know.

Cheers

Red: You can never post too much
I absorb it all like a sponge.
I've already converted my GL1100 to a RR with mosfets and the GL1200 motor will be using that RR.
The GL1200 -85 motor also only have 17500miles on it so I hope the internal electrical system have a long life a head of it(have not tested it yet), there's a pic of it in my other thread here:
https://ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... 50#p825903

The MaxxECU company do have some nice stuff, I use their CANBUS WBO2 sensors for instance. It is possible to use up to 8 WBO2 sensors at the same time on the Mini and it is also possible to assign them to whatever cylinders you seem fit. Below is a screenshot of how it looks with two enabled sensors: The MaxxECU line of ECU's also don't need an external VR conditioner as far as I understand it.

I do wonder if one can feel the difference between the Honda 8trigger wheel vs a newer 36-1 wheel, I'll try with the Honda first but will order a 36-1 just in case

Nice screen shot.

Trigger wheel difference - no difference in performance. I have used both. I have reinstalled the 36 tooth crank trigger wheel for a trial. May just go back to the 8 tooth. The only issue with the 8 tooth trigger wheel is you have to use a cam sensor as well as the 8 tooth trigger wheel is not a missing tooth trigger wheel.

I would recommend installing the WBO2 sensors in the exhaust manifold, just before the manifold joins the exhaust pipe. Picture of where I have mine installed: I have mentioned that you can balance the right/left cylinder banks. The accepted cylinder bank vacuum difference is 10%. If the vacuum is within this threshold no need to be concerned with engine fuelling, just calibrate the VE (fuel) table.

I have been reading up on individual cylinder fuel trim (ICFT) that can be used with sequential fuelling. Back in the early days of EFI and batch fuelling was used (all fuel injectors fired at the same time), there was a need to calibrate each injector. With wasted spark and now sequential fuelling, ICFT is not as important - but useful.

You can also consider semi-sequential fuel injection. This is where each fuel injector has its own injector circuit, but the injector circuits are paired and fired. This fuel injector pairing is different from paired fuel injection.

The difference is that with paired fuel injection, two injectors are on one circuit. Semi-sequential has each injector on its own circuit, but the ECU should fire two injectors at the same time. For instance, 1200 firing sequence is 1/3/2/4. Injector circuit for cylinder 1/3 would be fired at the same time, cylinders 2/4 at the same time, similar to paired but not the same. The semi-sequential injector layout does allow for a quick change to sequential fuel injection as the injectors are already connected to the ECU on individual circuits. This is how Tuner Studio and the Speeduino ECU works, the MaxxECU Mini may be different. Something to look into.

The stator is reported as an issue. Many reasons for this.

Get the MTune manual, read then read again. Takes time to digest all the information.

Cheers

Red, do you have any more info on that external alternator on that 1000 that you posted the pic of?

Theailer: Perusing on-line documentation/videos regarding the MaxxECU product line. Nice units, and a wide range of features. Checked pricing of units and being a frugal Canadian, too rich for me. The basic feature/functions needed are still the same for the GW1200 CFI system such as how to tune the engine, first starts, timing and VE/ignition timing/AFR tables and such.

Watched a video this morning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUM54yR2blw

Good intro, have a few more book marked to view. Interesting that the fellow narrating has used Speeduino. His application is more rigorous than mine, so Speeduino will still be my choice. I expect that some features such as using two O2 sensors will probably be part of the Speeduino coding later on.

I did get the sense that you will need to be very familiar with the MTune software. I have a thread on Classic GWs regarding the Tuner Studio software. I look at each feature/function separately, research the feature/function to get a good sense of what it is, and how it relates to the engine tune. I should have done this in the preparatory phase.

More to follow.

Cheers