Further thoughts on Hydro Clutch conversion

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Old Fogey
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Further thoughts on Hydro Clutch conversion

Post #1 by Old Fogey » Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:36 pm

In my quest to lighten the load on my arthritic left hand I did the conversion to hydraulic clutch as shown in this long post by Sunnbobb;

http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic. ... ht=#136393

Well, although it worked fine I was less than happy at the results regarding the lever force needed. :(

When I was over at Cyborg's we did some experiments and I found that the whole clutch from an 84/85 1200 would JUST go in! (in theory, as it was a lash-up job just to test some ideas out).

When I got back home, an 84 1200 clutch just happened to be on eBay so I grabbed it.

OK, so why would I want to do this? Here's the reason


Image


The black part in the centre is a diaphram spring. This method of springing allows high clamping pressure with low actuating pressure.


This is a BIG clutch! 1200 left, 1000 right.




Image



Image





All the plate thickness measured up OK but I had to use the hated 'B' plate as I didn't have spare plain ones.





The 1200 basket has one more tooth on the oil pump drive sprocket





Image





The oil pump chain is the same for all the 1000/1100/1200 which means that the 1200 oil pump sprocket is smaller by one tooth also! 1200 left, 1000 right. That also means that the 1000 oil pump will be overdriven by my reckoning by about 12% which should help the lubrication a bit.





Image






The 1200 pressure release plate has an open bearing to allow the normally fitted long guide pin to go through. The 1000 has a push rod cup instead which needs to be swapped into the 1200 one.






Image







The correct locking washer for the 1200 clutch locates on the nib above the screw. I could not locate one over here so the clutch pressure plate was drilled and tapped for a screw and the 1000 lock washer used.






Image







Is that tight or what!
Actually, it's not as tight a fit as it looks. There is some overlap of the gasket which, when trimmed away, leaves a gap of 2mm-3mm between
the outer clutch basket band and the cover.





Image





All buttoned up!
All ready to go back into the bike, having checked that nothing is fouling on the covers. There is one drawback immediately apparent from this conversion. There is no way that ANY clutch work can be done with the engine in the frame. It is not even possible to remove the slave cylinder!






Image


I tested this out thoroughly today. Nice light, smooth action at last! dancr dancr

This would be a great conversion too for anyone with a sidecar or someone like Randakk who is pulling a lot more power out of the motor.

(there's one or two more pics in the album
http://s298.photobucket.com/albums/mm27 ... %20clutch/ )

One more thing. The clutch design changed for the 86 / 87 1200 to a ribbed type of clutch basket with altogether different friction plates. This basket looks as though it may be slightly bigger from pictures; not sure on that as we didn't have one to try but if it is, it won't go in!
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Post #2 by Whiskerfish » Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:48 pm

I bet that would be a great upgrade for a performance bike!!
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Post #3 by Sagebrush » Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:48 pm

Nice write up John. How did you determine what length of hydraulic hose to use between the clutch lever and the the cylinder? Did you just use the 1200 hose?
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Post #4 by Roady » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:09 pm

Excellent work, John.

This should definitely go in the How-To's!

And you've really got me thinking about that junk '85 I saw.

Off to ShopTalk!

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Post #5 by JBz » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:13 pm

good job. Ive thought about it but you did it. JB
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Post #6 by Old Fogey » Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:31 pm

Sagebrush wrote:Nice write up John. How did you determine what length of hydraulic hose to use between the clutch lever and the the cylinder? Did you just use the 1200 hose?


I just used the 1200 stuff Dean, from the master cylinder all the way down to the clutch. There is little difference in the size of the bikes from handlebar to slave cylinder so I re-bent the steel? tubing, ran it along the bottom right shelter tube and down in front of the tank by the stop light switch. A small bracket there holds it and there is a nice curved rubber section that goes round the drive shaft. The slight extra length I lost at the rubber end from the cylinder to the joint at the steel tube.
--------------------------------------------------------

'The Swan' complete rebuild album - See the result here!

ENGINE REBUILD TIPS - Stuff you won't find in the manuals!


"Impossible Is Just a Level of Difficulty!..."
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous! :-D

click the banners below:
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( Seriously, you haven't read all 115 pages of the WinGovations website ?? :shock: )

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Post #7 by Old Fogey » Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:51 pm

Roady wrote:Excellent work, John.

This should definitely go in the How-To's!

And you've really got me thinking about that junk '85 I saw.

Off to ShopTalk!


That's it in the 'How To's' Steve.
--------------------------------------------------------

'The Swan' complete rebuild album - See the result here!

ENGINE REBUILD TIPS - Stuff you won't find in the manuals!


"Impossible Is Just a Level of Difficulty!..."
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous! :-D

click the banners below:
Image Image Image

( Seriously, you haven't read all 115 pages of the WinGovations website ?? :shock: )

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Post #8 by Cookie » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:00 pm

If the old one was good for thirty years this should do 50.
Enjoy life,
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Post #9 by Old Fogey » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:07 pm

The good part of this is that I managed to beat the breaker down on price as he thought it was incomplete as there were no springs! :lol: :lol:
--------------------------------------------------------

'The Swan' complete rebuild album - See the result here!

ENGINE REBUILD TIPS - Stuff you won't find in the manuals!


"Impossible Is Just a Level of Difficulty!..."
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous! :-D

click the banners below:
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( Seriously, you haven't read all 115 pages of the WinGovations website ?? :shock: )

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Post #10 by Cookie » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:14 pm

:-D
Enjoy life,
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Post #11 by Briang » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:23 pm

Absolutely fascinating, John. I would love to be able to play like this.

Any pictures of the hydraulic actuator? The depression for it is shown on your final cover in your album and you show it installed but I would be interested in seeing what it looks like before it gets installed.
Brian,
'81 CB900C (July 2005) / '82 GL1100 (December 2007)
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Post #12 by Old Fogey » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:42 pm

Briang wrote:Absolutely fascinating, John. I would love to be able to play like this.

Any pictures of the hydraulic actuator? The depression for it is shown on your final cover in your album and you show it installed but I would be interested in seeing what it looks like before it gets installed.


Sorry bud, not one pic of the slave cylinder other than it fitted to the casing, not that there's much to see anyway.

Basically inside it there is a piston, rather like a brake piston and a light coil spring which keeps it pushed forward onto the pushrod. That's it!
When the clutch lever is pulled, the piston is forced out, pushes on the rod which then pushes on the pressure release plate and the clutch frees.
--------------------------------------------------------

'The Swan' complete rebuild album - See the result here!

ENGINE REBUILD TIPS - Stuff you won't find in the manuals!


"Impossible Is Just a Level of Difficulty!..."
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous! :-D

click the banners below:
Image Image Image

( Seriously, you haven't read all 115 pages of the WinGovations website ?? :shock: )

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Post #13 by Briang » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:52 pm

Well, your bike is beautiful, John. I just viewed your video. You must be very proud.
Brian,
'81 CB900C (July 2005) / '82 GL1100 (December 2007)
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Post #14 by Old Fogey » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:11 pm

Briang wrote:Well, your bike is beautiful, John. I just viewed your video. You must be very proud.


Well, thank you! I am!
--------------------------------------------------------

'The Swan' complete rebuild album - See the result here!

ENGINE REBUILD TIPS - Stuff you won't find in the manuals!


"Impossible Is Just a Level of Difficulty!..."
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous! :-D

click the banners below:
Image Image Image

( Seriously, you haven't read all 115 pages of the WinGovations website ?? :shock: )

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Post #15 by Roady » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:33 pm

What are you doing up at this hour of the morning, John?

Trying to adapt to our schedule already?


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