First Start on 77 Project Bike

[leonardhcross]

Hello naked friends. It has been a while. I have not rushed this first startup attempt. First I sprayed lots of PB Blaster into spark plug openings. After some time, I then used the kick starter by hand to see if the engine was free. It was. Then I squirted some oil into the spark plug holes and used a battery to spin her over. That was followed by a good compression test....all around 140psi. Based upon those initial tests, I began spending for timing belts, carb overhaul kit, brake system rebuild and gas tank removal/cleaning. Lastly, I checked and gapped the points and set the static timing and adjusted the valve lash. Oil and antifreeze levels good. As I said, I did not rush to try starting. This prep has been done over many months with tons of down time and family time. Finally, today, I started her up. Here is the link to the YT video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc2mIpG ... XY&index=1

[Fred Camper]

Wow, your pacients has worked. Glad to see another 1977 saved from the rot pile. Even the Muffler seems to work.

[gltriker]

Very Good, Len !!

[leonardhcross]

I have been chasing an "ignition glitch" for a week with the help of my pal Cliff Reynolds. We don't have it resolved yet. I just wanted to share my story with others who have challenging ignition issue. Over the past ten days, I have: installed, gapped and static timed new points twice, added a designated ground to my condenser, bench tested original coils and caps, tested each spark plug for spark multiple times, installed and un-installed new coils, bench tested new coils and caps, checked continuity on all primary wires, removed and bench-tested condenser, rebuilt primary wires to points. And still I have cylinders 1 and 2 not firing.....even though, when I ground each spark plug, I get a nice fat spark. I'm glad that I am retired. I will eventually get to the bottom of this. Here is a short video showing status as of today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDAo-oSyvqI

[leonardhcross]

Follow up. I need some fresh perspective on this. Today, I re-checked compression. 140 to 155 on a bike that sat for 23 years.
I backed out all four idle mixture screws from 1 and 1/2 to 3. With bike running, I spritzed gas into carburetor to see if cylinders 1 and 2 would fire up. No change. In a darkened garage, I pulled all four plugs and cranked her over to check condition of the spark. Fat and blue on all four. So, I have spark, compression and fuel but no combustion in cylinders 1 and 2.
I think it is not possible to spray fuel into a combustion chamber, compress it and apply spark and not get combustion. But, that seems to be where I am. What am I missing here? It has to be timing. The spark must not be coming at the right time. But, shouldn't I at least get some back-firing?

[dontwantapickle]

"What am I missing here? It has to be timing"

Makes sense to me.
I'd go back thru and play with the timing and see if I couldn't invoke some sort of change.

TDC is when the timing marks line up AND both the intake and exhaust valves on cylinder #1 are closed.
check that and if BOTH rockers don't wiggle, rotate the engine 1 complete turn.

I know it's basic, but I'd start back at the beginning, just to make sure nothing has changed.

[leonardhcross]

Thanks dwp. The static timing progressed well. Nothing was off by much. A little turning of the sub-plates and I had fire right at "F". But, we both agree that the timing of the spark for 1 and 2 seems to be the crux. As I said earlier, I'm glad that I am retired and not working on anybody's clock. I'll update when I have news.

[leonardhcross]

dontwantapickle has offered that my timing could be off by 180 degrees on cylinders 1 and 2. However, cylinders 3 and 4 are firing and running strong. Can this be a possibility?

[dontwantapickle]

I actually just suggested that you consider starting the timing procedure over from the beginning.
an engine can't run if it is 180 out.

While you're in there, I'd check the cam timing too.

From what you have posted here,
it seems that everything is working, it's just not doing it when it should.

I'm confident that you will get it sorted... eventually.
sometimes trial and error works.

Another idea:
Maybe... before taking off the covers,
just get the engine running and start moving the
ignition backing plate forward and backward just to see if you can get the engine
to make some noise in the front cylinders.

[leonardhcross]

Thanks for the follow up. Your insights are very important to me. The most perplexing part is, I have a strong, fat spark on all plugs. If the timing was just off a bit, I would expect some popping or back-firing but, I am getting nothing from 1 and 2. I have a sinking feeling that, in the end, it is going to come down to something simple....because all of the "big stuff" checks out. Cliff had suggested that perhaps the primary wires inside the distributor were arcing. They were twisted in there pretty tightly so I thought that might be it. So, I removed the existing wires and patched in a new pigtail with nice solid wires and connections. No change. Here are some before and after pictures of that change.

Before.jpeg

Adding new pigtail.jpeg

After.jpeg

[leonardhcross]

I have read in the forums that it does not matter which "high point" one chooses on the cam. Of course, I have chosen the one closest to the "dimple". However, could it be that the other side of the cam is the right "High Point"? Purple marks my "high point" Sorry, don't know why the photo loads upside down.

Left side points open on high point of cam.jpeg

[dontwantapickle]

From your pic...
It appears to me that timing on the backing plate (points 1 + 2) may be extremely retarded.

After.jpeg

In my experience,
those notches usually line up a little closer than that.
I'm just spitballing at this point. Just trying to help.

[dontwantapickle]

If you do end up moving the backing plate a bunch,
you will have to re-adjust the point gaps, they will change.

A test light is mandatory for me to know exactly when the points open to set gaps,
I'm not skilled enough to just eyeball it.

[leonardhcross]

Interesting observation. I wonder if that relates to the possibility that I am using the incorrect "hump" on the cam. Like you, I always use a test light when static timing. As they are currently set, the light lights up right at F-1 and F-2. I am looking forward to trying some of your ideas and Cliff's ideas.

[dontwantapickle]

Split timing can be tricky.