Problem LTD

[Paola Zago]

Good morning everyone, my 1976 ltd, with 108 thousand km, the other day started making clack clack from the cardan. I took it to the Honda workshop, removed the cardan, they told me that the problem is inside the engine, the rubber pads code 13436-371-000 are broken or worn, there are 12 to change, but you have to take the engine out and open it. minimum estimate 800 euros.
Do you really have to open the engine to change those pads? advice?? any problems if I leave everything like this
Paola (Italy)

[flyin900]

Paola those parts are the generator shaft dampers and yes it is an engine out and rear cover removal to access the part. Is the noise present when the motor is running only and the bike is stopped? You indicated initially that the noise was from the Cardan drive rear assembly. That would only make a noise when the bike is being ridden. Making it harder the determine where the noise is actually coming from while riding it and hearing the sound. The drive shaft has a universal joint that connects the output of the engine to the cardan drive, which are known to fail and make the same sound. Much easier and cheaper repair.
If you trust this shop then you have a decision to make on doing the repair.

[Whiskerfish]

Yea I would wonder about that diagnosis.

[Rednaxs60]

Question - How was the diagnosis done? Have two scenarios to present.

Scenario 1 - you noticed the sound, decided that the most probable reason is the Carden drive. You take the bike to the shop for clarification and the shop supported your theory.

Scenario 2 - you noticed a sound emanating from the engine and took it to the shop and asked the shop to determine the reason for the noise without you mentioning what you thought it might be.

Two different scenarios, two different responses.

I replaced the rubber dampers on the transmission shaft when I rebuilt the 1200 engine, rubber dampers were in good shape, but had new so I replaced. Did not do the alternator drive. Looked at the parts fiche for you GW, and it would seem that the dampers you mention are encased in the drive and should be in pretty good shape. These dampers do not get a lot of movement.

With only 108 Kms (my 1200 engine was in the 160 Km range) should not have to replace these. It would take a significant catastrophic failure to damage enough of these rubber dampers to get a noise. The rubber damper install slot tolerance for these dampers is quite close.

These drive units are available used. If you want to do some investigating into this drive unit, try to find one that is relatively inexpensive and take it apart. This will indicate to you that a failure of these rubber dampers is highly unlikely, and you will have a spare unit - less expensive and time consuming.

Nothing against the diagnosis, but further investigation is needed. Just my 0.02 cents worth.

[Paola Zago]

Hello everyone, in the workshop they dismantled the entire rear arm, including the wheel, final drive unit, gears, bearings, shaft, and everything is fine. the noise can be heard by hand turning the pin that comes out of the engine, and it seems to come from approximately behind the oil cap.
With the engine running, but with the motorcycle stopped you can't hear anything, just by moving the bike, almost at every gear change, you could hear this clock clok.
Paola

[CYBORG]

sounds like it might be a bad U-joint

[Old Fogey]

From the description of where the noise seems to be coming from, it could indeed be the alternator shock absorber. That gives you two problems - the first is easy but a lot of work; the engine has to come out.
The second is very much more difficult - the shock absorber rubbers have been obsolete for a very long time and are to all intents totally extinct.
BUT, SURPRISE, SURPRISE!!! GRAB THESE WHILE YOU CAN!! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294788001796

Here's how to do it: https://www.wingovations.com/alternatorshockabsorber

Just noticed that the shipping would be a problem. Maybe someone in the States could help Paola?

[Paola Zago]

Good morning everyone, update, at the Honda dealership they don't want to take out the engine, open it to change the 12 pads for two reasons, the first is that they don't have time, they don't have mechanics capable of assembling the engine and then because the pads on the Honda are no longer available.
they say I can travel without problems, noise aside. Honestly, it's a motorcycle with which I don't think I'll travel more than 500/1000 km per year. both for the rarity, in Italy there are only 8 LTDs, and because I have other motorcycles, including a yellow GL 1000 from '76 and a GL 1200.
Do you think there could be any problems leaving everything like this??

[Paola Zago]

From the description of where the noise seems to be coming from, it could indeed be the alternator shock absorber. That gives you two problems - the first is easy but a lot of work; the engine has to come out.
The second is very much more difficult - the shock absorber rubbers have been obsolete for a very long time and are to all intents totally extinct.
BUT, SURPRISE, SURPRISE!!! GRAB THESE WHILE YOU CAN!! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294788001796

Here's how to do it: https://www.wingovations.com/alternatorshockabsorber

Just noticed that the shipping would be a problem. Maybe someone in the States could help Paola?

Thanks Old Foghy for your interest, I had also seen the Ebay ad and the Wingovation article, but the problem is that if the mechanics don't want to remove the engine and open it, what can I do?
In the meantime I'm looking for another workshop that can do the job.
Thanks again.
Paola

[Old Fogey]

Thanks Old Foghy for your interest, I had also seen the Ebay ad and the Wingovation article, but the problem is that if the mechanics don't want to remove the engine and open it, what can I do?
In the meantime I'm looking for another workshop that can do the job.
Thanks again.
Paola
[/quote]

Well. these are the first I have seen for sale for literally years! If you don't buy them and hope to find another mechanic first, they may be sold and you will have years to wait for more to appear. You can always sell them again if you don't use them.

[Paola Zago]

A friend told me that perhaps there is a company that can replicate them based on a sample. is a company specialized in all types of rubber seals for vintage cars.
I have to inform myself.

[cfairweather]

Paola- I have never replaced those rubber pads and never seen them go bad, but I trust the advice that Old Fogey has given to you. If the rubber pads are the problem, you could replace the entire part. I have extra parts and will ship you whatever you need, free of charge, but you would have to pay the shipping. These parts are heavy, so it won't be cheap. I have some questions below...

"Hello everyone, in the workshop they dismantled the entire rear arm, including the wheel, final drive unit, gears, bearings, shaft, and everything is fine. the noise can be heard by hand turning the pin that comes out of the engine, and it seems to come from approximately behind the oil cap."

When they turned the shaft by hand and heard the noise, I assume the engine was not running, correct? I also assume that the transmission was in neutral, correct? So with these assumptions, it is possible they were hearing normal gear "noise."

You mentioned two things that makes me think the problem could be the primary chain. The primary chain is located behind the oil cap. Second, you hear the noise when shifting gears. With that many miles on your bike, your primary chain probably has a lot of slop and is at least contributing to the noise you are hearing. Without a tensioner, they will make noise and drive you crazy. I always add a tensioner to the 1975-77 engines when I take them apart. It is always wise to replace the primary chain, if you have it that far apart. David Silver Spares has new chains and they are available from other places too for about $125.00 to $150.00. And of course, if you have to go that far, replace the rings.

If it is the primary chain, ear plugs might help too. .

[Paola Zago]

Good morning everyone, thank you very much Cfairweather, for your very kind offer, in the workshop they have dismantled the entire rear, and the shaft comes out of the engine (part list 13410-371-000) where the transmission shaft is connected to the joint . by turning the shaft that comes out of the crankcase by hand, you hear this clock-clock type noise, and if you listen carefully, you can hear it approximately behind the oil filler cap.
With the engine running, in neutral gear, you can't hear anything, the noise can be heard when engaging the gears, the more quickly I engage them, and the sharper and louder the noise is, the more delicately I engage the gears, and the lighter the noise.
My question at this point is: can I leave everything like this, or can I cause damage to the engine? with the LTD I probably don't run more than 1000km a year.
Thanks again for everything

[Old Fogey]

That type of noise is typical of a loose primary chain. There is no tensioning device in the 75-77 models so it does tend to slap once it has some wear. Although it could still be the alternator shock absorber rubbers, to make that noise they would all have to be missing and that it unlikely. The oil filler cap is almost directly above the primary chain.
Almost every GL1000 of those years have noises from the chain, unless it has been changed at some point. I have only ever heard of one broken chain, so with your limited use, I would not worry too much.
Accurate carburettor synchronising will definitely help too.

[Paola Zago]

but by turning the pin that comes out of the engine by hand, is it possible to move the primary chain? To help you understand the experience of the mechanics at the Honda dealership, yesterday they asked me what engine oil to use, whether mineral, synthetic or semi-synthetic. What do I answer him?? I have always used a very high quality synthetic, Syneco, the owner of the factory is a friend of mine, and it is used as a lubricant, with the appropriate specifications, in the Ferrari cup, in the Lamborghini trophy and in the Porsche challenger. In Honda they have Castrol, what type should I tell them, mineral, semi synthetic or synthetic?? so imagine mechanics who don't know what oil to use in an engine they consider old, how can I trust it to open......