Found My Winter Project - 79 One Owner, Vetter Kit

[gltriker]

[Lucien Harpress]

If it's any consolation, it gets easier after you do it about 7 or 8 times.

In all seriousness, you'll be happy you went that last little bit and spilt the plenum. Honda was inspired when they drilled all those fuel passages and eliminated a bunch of hoses they would need otherwise. But that means an extra mess of o-rings and gaskets that require attention 50 years after the fact.

[NotSoLilCrippseys]

Well, folks, the plenum gasket wasn't where the leak was happening.

I buttoned her up this evening and gravity fed the bowls on the bench. Quickly, I got the flow up from #4 into the plenum and into the intake. Same problem.

I went in to inspect the needle valve again, figuring I'd swap with another carb to see if the valve was at issue. After much consternation and close inspections involving zoomed camera settings, I'm confident it's actually the Randakk's deluxe billet float post repair kit.

It's not allowing the needle valve to drop all the way down (ok, rise all the way up!) to shut off the fuel when the bowl gets full.

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We can predict the result.

This is all a little tricky, as the mount for the needle valve sort of dangles and bounces as it hangs off the float. It needs a little space to bounce if it's to reliably seal the deal.

I'm pretty disappointed. The repair kit an ingenious device and installed very easily. But it isn't cutting it, I guess because it wasn't cut with a diameter that allows the valve to nest in with wiggle room to spare.

I had to walk away and ponder my next steps. I might be able to use pliers to pinch the hanger a bit and allow it to drop in.

For now, I think I've at least identified the cause of my problem. And I learned another lesson: don't bust a float post.

[gltriker]

Yes, that was a surprise...a bad one.

[wingrider]

Could you over size the hole where the valve and seat go in that fancy bracket?

[NotSoLilCrippseys]

Good news. The carbs are finally back together, not leaking, and bolted to the motor. The project runs, and I'm not getting fuel into the plenum.

It was touch and go over a few different work sessions.

My verdict on the Randakk's Deluxe Billet Float Post Repair Device: Not exactly plug and play. One would be much better off climbing into a Delorean equipped with a flux capacitor and going back to a time before the float post broke.

I started by drilling a larger diameter hole to enable my float valve to drop in all the way to the brass. Not wanting to create a different problem by going too big, it took a couple progressively larger bits.

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Not surprisingly, dropping the valve down a bit threw off the float height, so I reset it to 21mm, as the instructions indicate.

I bench tested the rack. Flooding in #4. ARGH! Despite appearances, maybe that float valve just leaks. I swapped the valves between #2 and #4. Flooding still in #4.

I dropped the bowl, puck, and gasket out of #4, suspended the rack in the air to help me see what's what, and bench tested. I found that I could manually shut off the flow, that 21mm wasn't cutting it, and that I didn't need too much pressure to shut the flow. There was lots of head - and chin - scratching. I used some four-letter words.

I then got into deeper inspection mode and compared #2 and #4 pretty carefully. It occurred to me that the pin height for #4 might not be the same as the height for #2.

Yup. I found a roughly 2.5mm difference. In an application where float heights are 21mm, a 10%+ difference is not quite insignificant.

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Someone else (my son, perhaps) might consult Euclid, do some mechanical engineering calculations, and sort out the math of a float post pin hanging down 2mm deeper into the bowl - particularly its impact on the "high water mark" for fuel in the bowl.

I opted for trial and error. I adjusted the float height as close to 21mm as I could get while clearly shutting off the flow into the bowl. Partly, this required slight adjustment to the stop point tab that butts against the float post to prevent the float from dropping too far, as there just wasn't enough "wiggle" on the float. I did all this trial and error with the carb right side up and suspended in the air with the #4 bowl removed. Then I buttoned it all up, flipped it over, and bench tested again.

I made progress in round 1. The fuel did shut off, just as it crested the top of the jets - I could easily see it, as the slides were removed. OK. I needed to raise the float height just a bit more to shut the fuel a little lower, which seems counter to what I would expect with the post pin difference.

I'm as close as I can get it. I could be in for some #4 fuel starvation at higher revs, which isn't good. (We'll see down the road a bit.)

I buttoned it all up, bolted the rack to the motor, and fired her up. I ran her for a good 20 minutes or so to watch for issues in the plenum. None.

Lesson: Don't bust a float post, period. (For me, that means keeping float bowls mounted UNLESS I'm actually working in - not on - the carbs.)
Suggestion for anyone who might re-engineer that Randakk kit: drill the float pin holes a bit lower to help maintain the correct pin height; make a bit larger hole for the float needle valve spring hanger to easily slip through. Those tweaks might really help.
Suggestion for anyone trying to use the Deluxe Billet Float Post Repair Kit: Don't assume that it will be as plug-and-play as it appears when you open the package. YMMV.

[Fred Camper]

Wow, lots of trial and error but for a good cause. Need to get her out on a big hill with high revs and lots of throttle to find out about #4 but I bet it will do just fine.

[NotSoLilCrippseys]

Fred. You're right, and I'm still a ways off from knowing.

It's been another month. I really need to be plugged into NGWClub more regularly again.

Lots of updates, in something like reverse order:

I rolled the winter project out of the shed late Saturday afternoon, bolted on the Vetter and lowers (mistake, btw), and fired her up for a maiden test 5-mile run down my road to the beach and back. She runs not well. Launch is not good, and it sounds like perhaps another carb synch is needed. (I swear she ran better off the external fuel cell than she does on the new fuel in the clean tank.) She didn't strand me or anything, and she picked up reasonably ok - at least up to about 5k+, which is about where I ran out of room to run hard.

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This Wing isn't my first rodeo, so I'm reasonably confident in my belt replacement and valve lash adjustments. Ignition timing was the typical hassle, what with the adjustment screws taking work/time/persuasion to loosen. And I know the tank is clean.

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I was dealing with a finicky, cold, non-firing #1 cylinder for a while, but she's in business. I do think I hear a miss at idle. Sporadic firing? Plugs are new and I did check spark.

I did NOT order new points/condensors on this build. The ones on the bike looked good. I'm going to replace points/condensors, re-check the synch, and run some resistance testing on the wires/coils. It "feels" like a fuel issue, but maybe it's an ignition issue. I'll also check the carb sync again.

Honestly, I think she ran better in the shed and on the fuel cell. I was running it all through the pump (not gravity), so I don't think there's reason to think it's the pump.

And I'll toss in a "teaser" photo. 3 weeks ago I dropped very little $ on a pair of '76 Wings, including this old girl in original paint.

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I found her a ways up the Maine coast resting in a garage with a not-matched sibling '76. I'll soon bring them home and tuck them away for next winter. (Where to put them?) Both side panels are original and in great shape. If the seller is to be believed, he had her running 4 years ago, did the head gaskets, and some other things. They come with buckets of other bits. There's at least one grab bar between the two.

[Track T 2411]

Can we say MWS?