Due diligence, part 1

[mikenixon]

Several years ago a customer sent me some vintage Honda carbs from Australia. I rebuilt them. He got them back, and a month or so later, due to his complaint, I paid for him to return them to me. Going over them carefully, I found nothing wrong with them. I then paid to ship them back to him. Subsequently, after almost a year of trying to help him, taking time from other work, to help him diagnose his issue-- in the end, the very end, he finally admitted to me, after nearly a year, that each time when I brought up the subject of ignition timing-- and you can believe I *did* bring it up a few times over the course of that year-- he had not been truthful when he said he had checked the ignition timing. In the end he admitted he had no idea how to adjust or even check his ignition timing and another mechanic on his end had finally made the bike run right by servicing and adjusting the ignition. Well, at least he told me. But that and the fact that the bike was finally right was the only satisfaction that came my way in this deal.

When I began doing "carbs in the mail" some of my coworkers at Kawasaki corporate thought it strange that someone would attempt to do this: "You're kidding. How's that going to work?" I had as much time in shops as they, so I knew very well why they were incredulous; in any pro mechanic's mind doing carbs by mail is akin to doing gall bladder surgery over the phone. I get that. I just had decided it could work. And it *does* work, ninety-nine percent of the time. But if you want to know how intuitively and completely a professional mechanic feels the inherent problems in this; if you want insight into the ingrained understanding of how often-- virtually always-- an engine needs other things at the same time that it needs carb work, just imagine the look on these guys' faces. It was priceless! Spoke volumes. And I am reminded of it every so often.

Back to the Australian carbs. The expensive shipment *times two* more than ate up all my profit; I essentially paid *him* to have his carbs rebuilt. As a sole proprietor I can't afford to do this very often. And while it usually happens only very occasionally, the beginning of this year saw a cluster of three in succession. As it turned out, two of these customers simply failed to test their ignition coils and the third discounted the importance of at-the-scene pilot screw adjustment. These are things I advised they do, and which they for whatever reasons ignored. As with the Australian customer, I held their hands all through the aftermath. 1

I tell you this for just one reason. Our 40- to 50-year old Hondas were made at a time when it was considered normal to be constantly maintaining them. That's how they're built. They are high-maintenance, very fiddly. I value these machines highly, love 'em in fact. But you have to understand what "high maintenance" means here. Consider that when I get one of these almost 50-year old machines into my shop I find so much needing to be done it invariably costs more than the customer paid for the bike to make it right. And that is when only relatively minor things are needed, on very low mile bikes that actually appear pristine. But they need a lot; it adds up. I'm not talking restoration. I'm talking about simply making up for what in light of these bikes' maintenance needs amounts to abuse and neglect. In fact, all of the very vintage Hondas in my shop getting considerable work have less than 9,000 miles on them. In the course of those 9,000 miles these machines should have received complete, axle-to-axle maintenance services three times, and of course none of them were, not even once. 2 Because of this, one adjustment or procedure on these bikes always turns into ten. Always. That's just the way bikes of this era are.

Due diligence. I like the phrase --it fits. And if a lawyer hadn't made it up, a mechanic like myself would have. Maintenance is far more than having your carbs rebuilt and really needs to be exhausted before carburetor attention; carburetor work comes *after* cylinder compression, valve adjustment, and ignition system service, not before. Most of the time these things can be more impactive than even the carburetors, often much more. And in all cases, if a customer doesn't make these things right, doesn't do due diligence, he won't be happy if Byron Hines rebuilds his carburetors. 3

Look for Part 2

1 None has offered to reimburse me for my good faith expenditures, let alone the after-service time spent.

2 Each of their engines required complete disassembly to clean out the sludge resulting from lack of oil changes.

3 A world-famous motorcycle mechanic. Google him.

[Rat]

Oh .... THAT Byron Hines ....

Gord

[mikenixon]

[77Gowing]

Guess I'm guilty of not doing my due dilligence. But, Im learning. Guess i need to remember what it was like keeping my MG-b, my Triump Spitfire and my Austin Healey cars running.
Ive only changed the oil on my 77 Gl twice, but havent ridden much more than 2K. Thats going to change soon.
Ignition is an optical C-5, so I dont see much need there. Woops, have not adjusted the valves though. Regular checks of oil levels, coolant levels, tire pressure & wear. Etc. Keep tanks full at end of each ride. Etc.
The bike runs great!. But ive an untrained ear.

[mikenixon]

[desertrefugee]

That pretty much spells out why you grilled me like Perry Mason before I even dropped off my CBX carburetors. You wanted to make sure that puppy was right before putting the icing on the cake!

Believe me when I say when those carburetors went back on and because of that preparation and "due diligence", the machine performs flawlessly.

Happy customer here. No return postage necessary...

[mikenixon]

That pretty much spells out why you grilled me like Perry Mason before I even dropped off my CBX carburetors. You wanted to make sure that puppy was right before putting the icing on the cake!

Believe me when I say when those carburetors went back on and because of that preparation and "due diligence", the machine performs flawlessly.

Happy customer here. No return postage necessary...

It was good working with you. I wish all my customers were as proactive.

[Rednaxs60]

Great thread. I've been accused of over maintaining my vehicles. The only criteria I have when I'm not working/maintaining my vehicles is that when the key is turned to on, it starts, and takes me where I want to go.

I think it was three years ago I took my '85 1200 to California for a night of camping. The Mrs was to fly into LA, be picked up by people she had never met, and we were to head back to Victoria. My pre-trip maintenance was very comprehensive considering that it had to be trouble free motoring back to Victoria. Some on the forum mentioned that they didn't do that much maintenance ever.

Can never do too much maintenance. If you schedule the work when the weather is not the best, you'll be able to ride when the weather is nice.

Cheers

[Shadowjack]

And it beats sitting on the side of the road, wondering how to get 800 pounds of dead metal several hundred miles farther.

[mikenixon]

Yepir! And look at it this way, as I tell all my customers, remember that nowhere on the road can you find even a spark plug for 50 year old Hondas.

[77Gowing]

Mike,
You never fail to give us food for thought. I am sure now, I need to go through my 77GL top to bottom before I go on my 2800 mile round trip to Ohio & back. My first MC trip over night.
I have lots of emergency back up, American Express, Master Card, discover, Visa, Paypal, Google pay etc.
Also bought an emergency tire repair kit and a set of Motionpro tire spoons.
Im a bit scared, but safe in the knowledge that lost of MCists do this all the time.
Take care

[Rednaxs60]

Did a 7400 Km trip last year to Dawson City return on the 1500. There are stretches where there is nothing for 250 Km. There is a restaurant/gas bar at the Continental Divide but nothing either way for some 200 Kms. There was a Ford pickup that took on a moose, moose lost, but the truck took out the right front side. Another couple had an RV, big diesel pusher with a rad issue. Had to remove the rad, drive some 200 Km into Whitehorse to get it fixed and return. The owner of the restaurant loaned the couple his truck to do this. People were putting diesel into there gas vehicles, not a good idea. It was chalked up to not knowing, but the pumps were marked really good - couldn't mistake it. Very little cell phone reception up there, and BCAA or equivalent service is not good. Lots of open spaces in the northern US states and across Canada as well. Any trip you make on a 30 plus year old bike can be an adventure. If you say to yourself that you'll wait until you get back to do the work/maintenance, do it before you leave - coulda, woulda, shoulda doesn't cut it a long way from home. The up front cost will pay for itself, and if riding two up - don't need that conversation, spoils the trip.

[desertrefugee]

To play The Devil's Advocate here...

All the preventive maintenance and scheduled service in the world is not 100% assurance that you won't have trouble on the road. And you can have a saddle bag and a half full of spare parts, but invariably the thing that breaks will be the thing you don't have.

What you really need is a happy-go-lucky/devil-may-care attitude and a lust for adventure. To me, nothing - and I mean nothing - beats the feeling of an open road ahead leading to points unknown, lots of time to spend and no itinerary.

(Having said that, there is some comfort in knowing that you are astride a reasonably well sorted machine!)

[77Gowing]

Thanks DesertRefuge,

I am confident that my bike is up for it.
Tomorrow, I intend to focus soley on the new rad hose issue. My tires have very little wear if at all. I have been sparingly riding. Just changed the oil & filter. The Pistol Pete rebuilt carbs are flawlessly operating. My C-5 ignition needs no maintenance. Frankly, Im more concerned about me. But, ive planned most every detail. No more than 380 miles/day, rooms booked etc.
I plan on enjoying the trip. Biggest fear...cages & cell phones.

I spect, this will become routine by the time I start back for home.

[mikenixon]

To play The Devil's Advocate here...

All the preventive maintenance and scheduled service in the world is not 100% assurance that you won't have trouble on the road. And you can have a saddle bag and a half full of spare parts, but invariably the thing that breaks will be the thing you don't have.

What you really need is a happy-go-lucky/devil-may-care attitude and a lust for adventure. To me, nothing - and I mean nothing - beats the feeling of an open road ahead leading to points unknown, lots of time to spend and no itinerary.

(Having said that, there is some comfort in knowing that you are astride a reasonably well sorted machine!)

Well said and I agree. You can go crazy trying to anticipate everything, and every journey of any consequence is going to include surprises, unknowns, and yes, that aspect can be taken as part of the adventure. However, I find it necessary to remind my customers that these bikes are old. You can jack up the gas cap and replace everything underneath it, and a 50 year old motorcycle will still be a 50 year old motorcycle. I just bought a factory $40 piece of specialized fuel tank connecting hose for a V4 I am servicing, and the part in the Honda wrapper looks like it has aged on the factory's shelf. Not sure how much better it is going to be than the part it is replacing. So even new parts are not all that new.

I have done as much long distance riding as anyone, and my first trip was cross-state with nothing but a tank bag.