Installing a high performance cam (camshaft musings pt 3)

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Installing a high performance cam (camshaft musings pt 3)

#1

Post by mikenixon »

As explored in the first two camshaft posts, the goal of fooling around with non-stock cams is the attempt to hold the engine's valve open longer and/or farther to increase cylinder filling. Despite the inherent problems of the negative effects on intake air speed and rpm, the use of an alternative cam can be made to work. However, a camshaft that is foreign to your engine absolutely must be installed carefully and correctly, and part of this involves several valve-related checks that demand to be made on the engine, which is what we'll focus on here.

Spring free-length
First to consider is valve spring free-length, that is, the length of the valve spring uninstalled. This is usually the only specification given in the OEM service manual. Its purpose from Honda's point of view is merely to enable you to easily spot fatigued springs. However, when building a high performance engine we go way beyond this, using spring free-length as the basis for calculating other important spring specifications.

Spring installed height
For example, valve spring installed height. Installed height is the height of the valve spring installed, that is, slightly compressed already. Even before the valve has moved. The purpose of knowing installed height is primarily to gauge valve seat pressure. Valve seat pressure is important in any engine, stock or modified, but the modified engine's increased cylinder pressure requires no-nonsense sealing. Also, at high rpm there is less time for valve cooling, so good seating becomes more crucial on that basis as well.

Spring full-open length
Next is the valve spring's full-open length. This is the spring's shortest working length, the hardest it can be expected to work. Among other things, knowing spring full open length helps the engine builder determine if there is sufficient spring pressure to control valve float. All performance camshafts increase how quickly the valve opens, adding to valve acceleration and making controlling valve "float" more of a concern. The spring's full-open pressure is your first line of defense against valve float, and it will often need to be more than stock.

Spring coilbind
Then valve spring coilbind. This is when the spring's coils touch one another, metal to metal. The spring is compressed past the valve's full open point. This must never occur in operation, and there's something wrong with a spring that comes near to doing so. The purpose of checking for coilbind clearance is to validate your choice of valve springs, to point out when they are not the correct rate.

Valve free travel
Then on to the valve, where we will determine its free travel, also called retainer-to-guide. This is the amount that the valve can travel from closed all the way to where the spring retainer hits the valve guide. One of the most important checks, many engine builders have failed to respect this area and have paid dearly.

Valve to piston clearance
Now valve-to-piston clearance. This necessarily changes in an engine modified with a different piston or camshaft, or having machined castings almost anywhere in the top end. To do this check, carburetor springs are put in place of the valve springs. A degree wheel on the crankshaft and a dial indicator on the valve tell us how much the valve moves at a point 30 degrees either side of TDC overlap, the danger zone, in 5 degree steps. This is unarguably the most important of all hot rod engine building clearance checks. Don't believe what the high performance parts retailers tell you. It's your engine, find out for yourself. The image below is a facsimile of the worksheet I use for this.

Valve to valve clearance
Valve-to-valve clearance is also important, particularly on older engines having old-school, hemi-like valve angles. This is typically checked by passing a thick piece of solder through the spark plug hole at TDC overlap, though there are other methods of doing this as well.

Valve follower travel
Then valve follower travel. Whenever camming a shim and bucket engine, you must check that the bucket (follower) will in fact move the required distance. In some Asian cylinder heads, the bucket bottoms out in the casting less than 0.100" after the stock valve lift. Failure to check this will result in a considerable amount of damage, including a broken camshaft.

Valve protrusion
And finally, valve protrusion. A commonly overlooked problem in shim and bucket type engines is that of assembling the cylinder head and then finding that the smallest of the factory's shims are needed to get the valve clearances to spec, leaving no room left for future valve adjustments. This is not acceptable, yet can happen even on a head that has simply had a valve job done. The solution is to "tip" or shorten the valves 0.008"-0.010", bringing the valve protrusion back down to factory spec, and allowing the middle size shims to be used for valve adjustment.

Naturally, there are several other "gotchas" to look out for, such as clearance of a larger cam's lobe with engine castings, rocker arm interference, and a few others. Hopefully it is clear that only a very naive individual "throws" a cam at an engine. And as a footnote, these things can indeed be relative to the GL1000 and GL1100. Jim Dour, the original owner of Megacycle, started with the GL1000 and was a fan of the bike.

Next post: Cams, cam chains, tensioners, springs, and bearings

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Re: Installing a high performance cam (camshaft musings pt 3)

#2

Post by 77Gowing »

Mike you are definitely the king of detail on this subject and I admire your expert opinion on all things technical.
But, I just cant keep up. I'm lucky just to have a running machine.
One comment though.
Isn't all this machinations of movement of charge and combustion byproducts mainly about volumetric efficiency?

My best regards,
Kenny
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Re: Installing a high performance cam (camshaft musings pt 3)

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Post by robin1731 »

And some of them still wonder why it costs so much when I'm building a race head. lolol


.
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Re: Installing a high performance cam (camshaft musings pt 3)

#4

Post by rcmatt007 »

robin1731 wrote:And some of them still wonder why it costs so much when I'm building a race head. lolol


.
yeah.... why go to someone with years of training and experience in medicine, when you can "have a hunch..."
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Re: Installing a high performance cam (camshaft musings pt 3)

#5

Post by robin1731 »

rcmatt007 wrote:
robin1731 wrote:And some of them still wonder why it costs so much when I'm building a race head. lolol


.
yeah.... why go to someone with years of training and experience in medicine, when you can "have a hunch..."
I read it on the internet....... lolol shakehands

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Re: Installing a high performance cam (camshaft musings pt 3)

#6

Post by mikenixon »

77Gowing wrote:Mike you are definitely the king of detail on this subject and I admire your expert opinion on all things technical.
But, I just cant keep up. I'm lucky just to have a running machine.
One comment though.
Isn't all this machinations of movement of charge and combustion byproducts mainly about volumetric efficiency?

My best regards,
Kenny
In some ways, yes. When teaching this stuff we used to begin with volumetric efficiency and show how combustion efficiency and thermal efficiency daisey-chained off that. That is, going from VE to CE there's a loss, then going from CE to TE there is a loss, and finally in the end only 20 percent or something like that of the BTUs fed into the engine makes it out as power. Naturally there is loss. That is what the word "efficiency" implies: an ideal and something compared to that ideal. Or mathematically, 100 compared to something less than 100. :) So you're right about efficiency, and even more right if you're thinking cylinder filling. But it goes way beyond that. I used to ask my students, "if I removed this engine's cylinder and set it on the sidewalk outside, how full of air would it get?" They were all able to answer, "well, one hundred percent." "But," I would reply, "looking at an engine from merely the mechanical ability, it would never fill even that full on its own while running. Why not, and what makes it able to overcome that, as all engines in fact do?"

Valve movement explains only so much. The rest is coaxing more air in and how that is accomplished.
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Re: Installing a high performance cam (camshaft musings pt 3)

#7

Post by 77Gowing »

mikenixon wrote:
77Gowing wrote:Mike you are definitely the king of detail on this subject and I admire your expert opinion on all things technical.
But, I just cant keep up. I'm lucky just to have a running machine.
One comment though.
Isn't all this machinations of movement of charge and combustion byproducts mainly about volumetric efficiency?

My best regards,
Kenny
In some ways, yes. When teaching this stuff we used to begin with volumetric efficiency and show how combustion efficiency and thermal efficiency daisey-chained off that. That is, going from VE to CE there's a loss, then going from CE to TE there is a loss, and finally in the end only 20 percent or something like that of the BTUs fed into the engine makes it out as power. Naturally there is loss. That is what the word "efficiency" implies: an ideal and something compared to that ideal. Or mathematically, 100 compared to something less than 100. :) So you're right about efficiency, and even more right if you're thinking cylinder filling. But it goes way beyond that. I used to ask my students, "if I removed this engine's cylinder and set it on the sidewalk outside, how full of air would it get?" They were all able to answer, "well, one hundred percent." "But," I would reply, "looking at an engine from merely the mechanical ability, it would never fill even that full on its own while running. Why not, and what makes it able to overcome that, as all engines in fact do?"

Valve movement explains only so much. The rest is coaxing more air in and how that is accomplished.
And to add a thought.
Doesn't that air in the charge act kind of like a spring? I'm just spit balling here. Lol
I wish I had spent more time with Dr. Schihl in our single cylinder combustion lab. But I was too busy running between ten testing labs to be able to pick up much of Doctor Pete's wisdom.
Sigh! Oh how I miss those days. I learned a lot but often it was random and disjointed.

I really appreciate your technical talks.
But would probably fail the course. No matter though. Even @ 65 I love to learn. Now that I tutor I wear a tee shirt that says,
"If you ain't learnin...you ain't livin!"

Take care Dr. Mike
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Re: Installing a high performance cam (camshaft musings pt 3)

#8

Post by gltriker »

Please discuss the dynamiic reasoning for utilizing double valve springs , Mr. Nixon.
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Re: Installing a high performance cam (camshaft musings pt 3)

#9

Post by 77Gowing »

Reg high performance cams.
After contemplating a lot on this thread I'm reminded of a conversation I had with an elderly hot roding friend. I was 28 he was sixty eight. He had several "muscle" cars that were beautiful. I asked him ignorantly if he hot turned everything. He laughed and said "nope"! I go to car shows and weekend cruises. Yes I want performance but performance that lasts." The tuning and engine work you do at the top fuel drag strip lasts for a few seconds and a couple of runs. You dont want or need that type of performance in your daily drivers.
All his cars looked and sounded bad. But were actually kittens under the hood. He said he liked to wrench now and then but not on a harried breakneck speed in time for the next run. So now I see with more clarity why this cam musing is beyond my comfort zone of understanding. I'm a grandpa tortoise and just want to motor on by and enjoy the ride without worrying about how to keep the angry Genie in his bottle. I'm certainly not critical of the topic because I enjoy the perspective given in your technical talks and I learn much. But since I'm not out on the track as an adrenaline junky would be, it's all esoteric to me.
But do, keep musing it's very educational and valuable to me.
Perhaps we could have a discussion on engine work that could boost our aging machines endurance but still deliver some modicum of thrills with a minimum of shop time.

I wrote this just after reading about the oil change intervals for my 2017 Indian Scout. The interval is 10k miles. Lol

It's funny how we can get wrapped up in our technical details to glean just a little more performance and lose site of our real purpose. Such as mine, to ride the ranch range back roads of west Texas away from traffic but in beautiful country.

Blessings to Y'all.
:crosso
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Re: Installing a high performance cam (camshaft musings pt 3)

#10

Post by mikenixon »

77Gowing wrote:...just want to motor on by and enjoy the ride without worrying about how to keep the angry Genie in his bottle.
Me too.
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Re: Installing a high performance cam (camshaft musings pt 3)

#11

Post by mikenixon »

77Gowing wrote:...After contemplating a lot on this thread...
Thanks for thinking about it. :)
77Gowing wrote:Perhaps we could have a discussion on engine work that could boost our aging machines endurance but still deliver some modicum of thrills with a minimum of shop time.
That I think we are doing when we consider maintenance that achieves maximum stock performance. That is, things people overlook and which if attended to would surprise us. See the video linked below.

https://youtu.be/CDnzwDWhN24
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Re: Installing a high performance cam (camshaft musings pt 3)

#12

Post by mikenixon »

gltriker wrote:Please discuss the dynamiic reasoning for utilizing double valve springs , Mr. Nixon.
There certainly are dynamics. But doubling springs is just to get adequate pressure in the limited amount of space. Engines that can get by with it have only one spring. I wrote more than this in my reply but something happened, it didn't go. I'll write it off-line then paste it later.
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spring dynamics

#13

Post by mikenixon »

There is of course a lot to this subject. But at the outset let me say it's not a practical discussion. The high performance valve spring world includes counterwound springs (something I have never seen in a Honda) and inteference springs (an encounter with which has left me extremely disallusioned), both of which are exercises in dynamics, as well as flatwounds, beehive, and more. But you don't see this stuff even in the highest performance production motorcycle engines, not even in Kawasaki's supercharged 325-hp Ninja H2R. Valve springs obviously wiggle and squirm, even rotate, the latter being why aluminum heads require steel spring seats. Ever see a high speed camera video of engine parts moving? Pretty scary. Cylinders jumping up and down, parts oscillating all over the place.

People often talk of valve spring fatigue and Honda must be concerned with it or you would not find spring height measurement in the official manual. But although in the 1960s car world this would have been science fiction, modern engines can sit for decades, obviously with half their valve springs partly and completely compressed, show no ill effect when started afterward, and continue without problems indefinitely. And I think the Japanese were ahead of the game on this. Honda valve springs are very very good, even used in racing and proven superior to all the aftermarket "racing" springs available. In more than 46 years, the only stock Honda valve spring failure I have even heard of was collateral, that is, broken when another part failed.

Not strictly a topic of spring dynamics, the prohibition against installing two-rate valve springs upside-down is in my view the closest the common man comes to playing in the theory realm and applying it practically, that is, to good, real-world effect. Upside-down two-rate valve springs, common on many Honda models, do affect the engine's rpm limit enough to be a concern, because they add to the valve's weight. Again, probably not even this edges into our world, but potentially it can.

One of the things cam makers have to contend with is the lobe finish. Not only does the surface finish determine follower life, it also affects spring longevity. Even at the micron level, a tiny bit of irregularity sets up spring nastiness....

But all of this and a dollar won't be enough to buy a cup of coffee....
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Re: Installing a high performance cam (camshaft musings pt 3)

#14

Post by rcmatt007 »

These threads have had me thinking again about one of the things I see with V twins (and especially on the Morgan 3 wheeler forum), which is the desire to "knock out the baffles" and "take out the cats". To me that just makes a lot of noise without a lot of gain in power. Then there are others who think increasing the ability to get air into the engine is the key.
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Re: Installing a high performance cam (camshaft musings pt 3)

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Post by 77Gowing »

On the US Army's Engine NATO certification test, it's a requirement to severely restrict air intake and exhaust gas flow. This makes the engine work very hard. The test requires four 100 hr intervals followed by oil change, then a ten hr performance and fuel mapping.
Test cell temps are held @125deg F.
Engine coolant at 220 Deg F with a static pressure preload to prevent boiling. This 400 hour test simulates 1000 hrs of wear.
Another requirement for our diesels is to run high temperature Jet A fuel. With almost no lubricity. And we are required to use the US Army's oil of which is usually recycled and has lots of ash particulates in it to coke up your injector holes and cause a downward ramp of rated power.
To pass, the engine must complete all test runs and not break or lose any more than 10% of it's original baseline rated power runs.
One thing I observed is the gradual loss of rated power on Detroit Diesel engines. This was due to injector coking during a 2 hr cycle called the up down cycle. 4 minutes no load idle followed by 6 minutes full rated power, run for 2 hrs. This happened on every 10 hour day run cycle for a total of 400 hrs. The engine is worked very hard. To learn about the coking we had to send injectors to Southwest Research to get them scanned via aScanning Electron Microscope to see the nano carbon modules that clogged or cooked the holes.
We ran 100 hp engines all the way up to 3000 hp engines on this cycle. Mostly it was many runs at full rated and runs at full rated torque.
The question you may ask is why what's the purpose?
The Army especially NATO want their trucks and tanks to survive in very difficult desert conditions at full power all day long unceasingly except for maintenance cycle.
Restrictions are set to simulate breathing in and out exhausting through very restrictive anti-balistic grills like on a tank. Ever notice tanks dont have grills mounted on their fronts? Cause that would be an easy target to knock them out of commission. That's why you see inlet air for engine intake and cooling mounted under heavy armor grills facing upward on top of the engine bay.
The vehicles get all kinds of dust thrown at them further making induction and exhaust a serious issue.
But, real world problems on the battlefield.

Blather rant over....uhmm sorry.
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