Musings on "The Great 4Cyl GWing Bearing Shortage Crisis"

[duke182]

Yes, fish's approach may well be the way in the future. If willing machinists are to be found.
But there is always a solution.
Unfortunately, many solutions are expensive.

Side note:
I know a talented machinist who brags about his machines and his ability to build a complete engine.
He has yet to do so. But he stays busy with industrial work. Not much time for other stuff.

[SnoBrdr]

I think Old Fogey and Cyborg looked into the Acty bearings, and it was a dead end (can't remember the details, but nothing came of it, they may shed some light)

I reckon Fish's perspective is the most likely workable solution if any....

Got a quick answer back from them: The Honda EN07 is not a motor cycle engine

[SnoBrdr]

I think Old Fogey and Cyborg looked into the Acty bearings, and it was a dead end (can't remember the details, but nothing came of it, they may shed some light)

I reckon Fish's perspective is the most likely workable solution if any....

Only 36 pages on that thread.

I'll wait to see if they chime in before I go reading thru the whole thing.

[duke182]

Based on doesnt mean exactly the same.
They may have designed it with bigger pistons for a little more power.

[82aspy]

Based on doesnt mean exactly the same.
They may have designed it with bigger pistons for a little more power.

that may include crank mods

[CYBORG]

OF here. Can't get logged in on Doug's new laptop.

The info is misleading. Take a look at the engine size; the Acty EH engine is based on half an 1100 not a 1000, for a start.

Bearings for this engine are near as difficult to find as for the genuine Wing bearings. There are no rod bearings without oil holes, as that engine is based on #2 and #4 cylinders of the 1100.

I believe that the sizes are comparable to the 1100 rod and 1000 mains, but have not verified this. Both types of bearings have the same 5 colour range as the Wings but the part numbers all have 679 as the model code, so you can assume there are possible changes.

EDIT: Actually, I think I have it somewhat wrong. It would appear that it IS based on the 1000, since it appeared in '77, but only fairly loosely. The bore is the same but the crank is different, with a much larger throw. I still think that the bearing sizes may be as I said, but I'm struggling to find info on that.

[Sidecar Bob]

OK, then look at it this way. Motor vehicle manufacturers are required by law to be able to provide the parts necessary to keep their products running for a specific period after the date of manufacture. IIRC, it is 10 years so the fact that you can still buy any parts for your 35 year old Honda says volumes about how well they have supported it for so long.

If you still aren't convinced, think about how many parts your bike has and how many parts all of the other Honda models over the years have had. Now imagine how much space it would take to store just one of each of those parts. Now multiply that by 100 because nobody would keep just one in stock or have just one made to replace it if it was sold. Now imagine the cost of keeping that inventory forever. Don't forget to factor in the increased cost per part for replacements made in small batches as demand decreases.

One more thing: How many times have you bought a cheaper aftermarket part instead of going to your local dealer for an original part? What do you think that does for their incentive to keep everything in stock for decades?

BTW: Honda has been very good over they years at trying to keep prices down by using the same part for a lot of different models. Some decry this as "parts bin engineering" but it is really sound design economics (why develop a new rad cap for every new model when you already have perfectly good ones in stock?) and it means that that part will be in stock for many years after the model it was originally used in has been out of production.

[joedrum]

hmm parts being made just 3 yrs after paid for ...not convinced at all

[Sidecar Bob]

3Years? Where did you get that number from?

Anyway, it is unrealistic to expect a manufacturer to keep making new parts for all of the products it has ever made forever. If they did the prices would be comparable to BMW parts (have you ever riced some of that stuff?) and nobody with an old Honda that they paid $500 for would buy them anyway.

If you wanted something with more parts availability you should have bought something made more recently. Like a Saturn.

BTW: I can still get most of the parts to keep my my 30 year old Hondas running easier than I could for my then 10 year old Suzuki. Its not that the parts weren't in stock but that Suzuki Canada was very inefficient at shipping bike parts to the dealers. If you were lucky they might ship within a week and a half of getting the dealer's order and they even sent the right part most of the time, even though they shipped car parts from the same warehouse the same day!!!

[duke182]

I know a guy who paid $2k to have a piston and a rod made to keep an original 30's model caddy running.
That was over 20yrs ago.
I also knew an old machinist, mechanic,service station owner, junk dealer who machined an old caddy piston to fit a 302 in a mustang.
Just because he didnt want to buy new.
He's gone now and so is his talent.
Like I said earlier, there's always a solution but you have to have the money or the talent.
Solutions can be expensive if you lack the talent.

[CYBORG]

In most cases, when the factory parts support is gone, some after market company picks up the slack, if there is a demand. The demand for bearings just isn't there yet

[SnoBrdr]

In most cases, when the factory parts support is gone, some after market company picks up the slack, if there is a demand. The demand for bearings just isn't there yet

How would a manufacturer know if no one approaches them.

[82aspy]

sent an email to these folks
http://kingbearings.com/oem_replacement.php
more here
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2012/05 ... ever-bffs/

https://www.google.ca/search?q=cranksha ... er&spell=1

Contributors to this article included:

Federal-Mogul

248-354-7700

www.federalmogul.com

King Engine Bearings

973-857-0705

www.kingbearings.com

Lunati

662-892-1500

www.lunatipower.com

MAHLEClevite

734-975-4777

www.mahleclevite.com

Quality Power Products

888-333-3210

www.q-power.com

Scat Enterprises Inc.

310-370-5501

www.scatcrankshafts.com

[Sidecar Bob]

Good question. Fortunately, there are people like WinGovations, Pistol Pete and Randakk involved with this forum (& David Silver Spares and others who aren't) who have already started finding new sources for some of the extinct parts.

It is also possible that they are already on the market but none of us knows the right website or catalogue to look at. When I tried posting this I found that 82Aspy has already started looking for existing sources and posted about it while I was typing

[CYBORG]

One person talking to a manufacture, is not much use. Aftermarket motorcycle companies doe research, by talking to people at motorcycle shows. Checking the number of bikes out there still registered, and monitoring clubs. They must determine the cost of R and D, manufacturing, and weigh it against the demand. I think it will happen in time. If you have the time and knowledge, I'm sure there are bearings out there that are close in size that can be modified to work, and you have the time and money to find, and work them.If you want plug and play, you may have to wait a while. Or pay someone else to do it. There are new bearings out there. Wingovations searches them out and buys them for re sale. But that is very time consuming, and costly