Rebuilding a Goldwing Starter

[Try]

Rebuilding a Goldwing Starter (This article refers to the 1000-1200 Goldwings)

Yes... You can (in most cases) rebuild the starter yourself. Before you go digging into the starter, though, be sure to rule out any associated hardware first. Four items of concern need to be checked before digging into the starter:

1. The "kill switch" located on the handlebar. 2. The starter button. 3. The starter relay. 4. "Hot" wire going into starter. If any of the three are "bad", you will not hear an audible "click" when you depress the starter button. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR A CLICK or the starter does not attempt to spin, check items 1-4 first... The kill switch and starter button can be checked by taking the assembly apart and using a multi-meter to measure voltage going into and away from the switches. If those check out "OK" move to the starter relay.

MANY times, the starter relay and not the starter is the problem. The starter relay is located under the left side cover near the battery. I can't remember off-hand, but it should be a round or square gizmo with a "hot' wire running directly to it from the battery. Double check the connections going into the relay. Also, check to make sure the "master" fuse located on the starter relay is still good and hasn't been blown. This fuse looks like a metal "spade" approximately 1 inch in length. It's designed to burn through if it gets too hot.If the starter relay checks out, move on to the starter.

Most of the time, if you replace the starter brushes, you will have a dependable starter for a few more years (the replacement brushes aren't as "hard" and will wear out quicker). If you have never removed the starter from the bike before, make sure you disconnect the battery first. After that, remove the 10mm bolts from the starter that connect it to the engine. Some folks say you have to drop the exhaust to get the starter off an on. I've gotten 'em off without dropping the exhaust before, but it takes patience and time. Remember that when you pull the starter backward out of the engine block, a small cog stays inside the block. That cog slides onto the output shaft of the starter and into the starter chain. It IS possible to drop that damn cog down into the engine... Don't do that! =) I've never had one do that, but if it does, it's a pure PAIN to get out!

What I do is remove the starter, reach inside the engine and make sure the cog is seated securely into the chain and leave it alone. (I don't normally goof with getting the cog out). I recommend before going on, that you head to the Honda shop and buy their "Starter Rebuild Kit".... The "kit" is usually no more than new brushes and springs, but hopefully, this is all you'll need. You should be able to get this kit for less than 20 bucks at your handy Hondoo dealership.Once the starter is out, you'll notice that the starter is built in three pieces: The "cone" (where the output shaft is), the body (which houses the armature and field coil), and the rear (which is where the brushes are located). A word of caution!

Keep a hammer punch handy because the bolts holding the starter together have screw heads that are easily stripped. I normally hammer punch 'em right from the start to break 'em loose (before I break 'em off) =) On a bench or table top, remove the long screws holding the starter together. After the screws are removed, grasp the starter in your hands and gently but firmly pull the starter apart. Concentrate on removing the "butt" of the starter first, as this is the end where the brushes are located. Don't freak if the starter smells "burned" when you pull it apart. (That's normal... To a degree) -=) There's lotsa' goop and yucky stuff inside... The starter brushes will be mounted to a plate sitting inside the "butt". Replacement is pretty straightforward. Just unscrew the originals and insert the newbies. Caution! There's lotsa' little shims that sit in the "base of the butt" =)

Make sure them critters stay put! They help shim up the end of the armature against the butt. (You may wanna' add a dab of dielectric grease to the shim area). NNNNOOOWWW, up to this point, we've assumed the reason for your starter woes are worn brushes...... HOWEVER, armatures DO wear out (unfortunately).... To check your armature ,do the following things: Remove the armature from the case (Be careful not to twist the soldered connection that allows the hot wire from the battery to be bolted to the starter). Don't forget your spacers (shims)! Measure the diameter of the commutator and height of the segments above the insulation. (The commutator is the doo hickey on the end that the brushes sit against... You should have a minimum height of 2 mm between the insulation and top of the bars). If the space is thinner than 2 mm, you can use a very thin hacksaw blade (I use a Dremel tool... It's easier) and undercut the spaces...

Inspect the commutator bars for discoloration. Discoloration along the edge of the bars indicates high resistance (Not good)... Bars discolored in PAIRS indicate grounded or open armature coils (Also not good!)... Don't use emery or sandpaper on the commutator bars as this will rough 'em up and eat up the starter brushes in no time. Check for continuity between pairs of commutator bars, and also between commutator bars and armature shaft. REPLACE the starter motor if armature coils are open, or shorted to the armature shaft (You can use a multi-meter to check this out)... IF the armature checks out, move onto the Field Coil... The field coil is the grouping of wires wound inside the starter case... Check for continuity from the cable terminal to the motor case and from the cable terminal to the brush wire. REPLACE the starter motor if the field coil does not show continuity, or if it is shorted to the motor case.OKAY....... Ya' got a lot more than you expecting, huh? =)

Take your time, be gentle, and watch all of your little bits n' pieces, and you should be able to squeeze at least another 40,000 miles out of your starter before you have to replace it. I rebuilt mine THREE times over 12 years before the commutator was so worn that I couldn't use a hack saw on it anymore. During those years, I was able to put nearly 120,000 trouble-free miles on my scooter. Source

[johnr]

i rebuilt a starter for a friends wing and ended up using some of the internal components of a cx 500 starter, as the wings one was totally knackered. took about an hour to figure out how to do it, .

[Bandanna]

give us your experiences john,and post your HOW TO +what i did modifications/rebuilds....

i am sure they will be of great interest here sir.........

we like a bit of knowledge here.........

[johnr]

to be honest, i cant remember what we did exactly. my mates wing starter went duff, and a quick dig in the shd came up with a cx500, actually a gl500 one, so we went and took his starter off, got it into the garage, and stripped it, along with the cx one. . the geabox type thing on the wing starter was ok, but the armature had worn like a threpany bit, as we say in blighty, over the pond you might say that instead of being round, it had flat faces on it, which had hammered the brushes to bits. we used, again dont take tis as gospel, cos it was a while back, the windings and armature off the cx, in the wing casing, i recall havng to drill a hole in the outer casing for the main power connection, as it was in a different place on the cx, and we put this back onto the wing gearbox mechanism, and bolted it all up tight. the whole thing was about 18 months to 2 years ago, and its still working fine now.

[Bandanna]

thanks john..........

i am up north from you in Teesside.............

sounds feasible.... if you can remember how you did do it,then please post....

we are not afraid to experiment here............

[wcnorthamiii]

I am not a mc machanac......so I try to do what I can. I have managed to get the starter off (had to wiggle the shift lever off first) but got it out. How big of a noise would that cog thingy make if it fell out? If it did not, how would I be able to tell if it is still in place when I reach inside there?

The wing has a good starter solenoid/relay behind the battery. I can hear it clicking when I hit the starter switch on the controls. What it is not doing is turning the starter or the engine. Is this a starter problem? I do hope that it is as I earlier stated, I have the starter off the bike already. Any help is greatly appreciated. I hope that this will be the last thing I do this summer/fall to the wing. My winter project is to finally find the pistons for the front brake calipers to rebuild those, replace the front fork seals, and replace the speedo gearbox. Next spring....maybe new headlight and mounting bracket....Would really love to find a custom light bar that will hold the head light with some extra driving/turnsignal lights.

Wish me luck.
Bill

[Whiskerfish]

Bill best to check your starter. This can be done with a set of jumper cables or any decent gage wire. Ground to the case and 12 volts DC hot to the terminal where the wire normally hooks up. If she spins that is "probably" not the problem. Just because the solenoid clicks does not mean it is good. The realy portion may be working but the contacts inside may be shot. You need to see if the output terminal is getting 12 volts to it when the relay engages.

[wcnorthamiii]

Hey thanks for the quick reply. I'll try the cable trick with the starter. I don't have an amp/volt meter yet. We have a store here in the area called Harbor Freight Tools and they have several different types of meters available. I am confused by the different names and sizes and prices so I'm not sure what I am looking at or looking for. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Bill

[wcnorthamiii]

Ok update....I hooked the cables up to my car battery, red to red, black to black. I hooked the other red cable to the side of the starter and when I touched the black to the housing nothing. But if I touched one of the three long screws that hold the starter together it spins (with some arcing off the screw). Did I hook it up wrong or do I have a different problem and the starter is ok?
Bill
R.F.18F.R.

[multi-me]

That sounds right, you hooked hot to the lug that comes off the starter and then touched the negative to one of the screws and the starter spins. Is your problem a new one? I mean did this just start happening where the relay would only click? Was your battery up to par? Did you try jumping the bike off with help from another battery? Since you have the starter off it might be worth opening up and checking, depending on your comfort level with that sort of project or you could take it to a starter/alternator shop and have them look at it for you. The gear inside the engine will be visible if you just peak in there. There's a little ledge it sort of sits on. Good luck!

Regards,
Wayne

[wcnorthamiii]

Yes, I have tried to jump from a good 12v battery(my truck and my car...didn't work). The battery has been charged on a 1 amp trickle charger for more than 15 hrs. The starter solenoid/switch what ever you wanna call the device that sits behind the battery, just clicks when I put the key into the run position, the starter(kill switch) is placed in the run position and the starter button is pushed. Nil, zilch, nadda, nothing. Someone please help!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Bill

[multi-me]

Whiskerfish wrote:

Just because the solenoid clicks does not mean it is good. The realy portion may be working but the contacts inside may be shot. You need to see if the output terminal is getting 12 volts to it when the relay engages.

I'd try checking the solenoid as WF suggests. I'm not sure if there is a diagram on here that would show which terminal is the output but I'll check when I get home. hang in there!

[wcnorthamiii]

Ok. I don't have an amp/ohm meter at home. How could I find out if its good? If I decided to buy a meter, what do I need to look for?
Bill

[Whiskerfish]

You can use just a test light if you have one. On the selonoid there are 2 small wires that have pins on the ends, those are what energizes the relay. There are also 2 large terminal studs. One is hooked up with a short piece of wire to the positive side of the battery and the other goes down to the starter via a longer piece of wire. The one that goes to the starter is the one you want to check. Have some one hit the starter button and when you hear the relay click you should have power for the starter wire on that stud. If not check the input side from the battery and if that is good then you need a new selonoid.

[Whiskerfish]

For a meter about the only thing I can advise you is get a decent one. I have a used Fluke model 77 ( I think) got it from a pawn shop for about a $100 I expect it will last the rest of my life. If you spend $30 at harbor freight then you will have a $30 meter that may or may not have built in surge protection and resets and internal fuses and whole bunches of other stuff that would render it useless the first time you hook it up wrong. And you will!! I have formal training in Electronics and I still hook mine up wrong.

my 2 cents