Single Carb, is it for me?

[roncar]

There have been a lot of discussions (some near arguments) on the web lately on other than OEM carbs. Is this the way to go? Is it the only viable future for our old wings? Is this what YOU need to do?

These are very personal questions that each of us have to consider for each of our unique situations.

NGW is anti single carb conversion because they are a threat to their sponsors that depend on the restoring of original carbs for their livelihood.

Really? NGW has a "Unique Carburation" forum specifically for.... wait for it...... Unique Carburation. NGW currently has 3 sponsors dedicated to the parts and restoration of OEM carbs and there is currently no commercial availability of single carb kits or their restoration, bolt and go. Don't see how "home brew" attempts at single carbs is any threat to them. It's statements like, "OEM carbs are junk and can't be made to work," that many here might beg to differ with. Yours might be 'junk' but it doesn't mean they all are.

Single (and dual) carb setups are nothing new and have been around a long time, both commercially and home made. They will not go away, no matter what anyone says about them. The same can be said of OEM carbs.

I have seen no verifiable factual data that ANY single carb setup is better (performance, mpg, etc.) than what mother Honda originally installed, when properly restored and maintained. That said, I can still see their use depending on the users condition of current carbs, experience, knowledge, sense of adventure, and/or pocketbook.

IMHO, a lot of the accolades of single carb mods are compared to OEM setups in need of rebuild and/or repair (or in extreme cases replacement.) Well, duh, of course it'll be better. Availability and cost dictate how I proceed (and many others as well I'm sure.) Also keep in mind that "everything affects everything." Other mods (like ignition, cams, coils, etc.) can alter your results when compared to others results.

Most of the commercially available single carb setups (in the past) have been pricey, at least to me. As such they have not been an option to me. Even with their high cost, from what I've read, most of these commercial ventures have failed not from viability, but other reasons, (personal issues, sickness, profitability, etc.) Niche markets, with a limited audience, are tough.

So bottom line, is a single carb a viable solution? IMHO, sure it is, depending on each persons situation. But (the infamous but,) for peace and harmony don't criticize others solutions/attempts/choice just because it does not agree with your own. Whatever you decide to do (or try) it is your choice and any consequences that arise from your decision, are your responsibility whether it succeeds, fails or causes damage. Please share your experience including what other mods you have done that might have affected your results. Success or failure could help someone else decide whether it's for them (or not) or see the next logical step to try.

Play nice and happy motoring.

[KYpondman]

Well said!
Claude

[ericheath]

Maybe we should have a "Single Carb for Dummies" section. LOL ----JOKE!!! I guess you have hit the nail on the head, Ron, as you usually do.

[Old Fogey]

Well reasoned post Ron! Needed to be said.

But (the infamous but,) We are finding that, more and more, the OEM carbs we are getting in for rebuilds are getting to the stage where rebuilds are marginal to say the least, especially on the 1000 carbs. The 1100 are not so bad. I've not done enough 1200s to comment.
The biggest problem is corrosion of the jet towers inside the float bowls. This would seem to be due to the aggressive nature of today's fuels. We can see the 'tide-mark' where fuel level comes to; above it the towers are usually ok, but within the fuel level sometimes the towers are almost rotted away. I have had to fix a few with epoxy, with unknown results as the longevity of that fix.

The time is coming that a viable alternative of 1,2 or 4 cabs needs to be found. So far, that is still a away off as far as I can see. As Ron says:

Niche markets, with a limited audience, are tough.

[mcgovern61]

The biggest problem is corrosion of the jet towers inside the float bowls. This would seem to be due to the aggressive nature of today's fuels.

I am not an expert in any carb, but is this as a result of more water in the gas mixed with ethanol?

[Hal]

OF, have you any pix of this?

[roncar]

the OEM carbs we are getting in for rebuilds are getting to the stage where rebuilds are marginal to say the least, especially on the 1000 carbs

I can see that coming and agree. Just like lower end engine repair, (not usually financially viable here in the US with engines relatively cheap and available,) the time will come that alternative solutions (and/or real deep pockets) will be needed just to keep these bikes on the road. I am already seeing used OEM carb racks climbing in price and it always has been a total crap shoot whether you will get something that is usable or not.

You and other countries will feel (are feeling) it first. Our time is coming and we need to embrace and encourage the innovators that are sourcing and experimenting now. Maybe not us, but future 'old' wingers will benefit later. What works and what doesn't, documented on-line will be priceless.

But (there it is again,) alternate solutions are not always a "requirement" here and now,.....yet.

[Old Fogey]

OF, have you any pix of this?

Oh yes!

This is what it should look like:

DSCN0670 (Medium).JPG

This is a 'little' corrosion!

DSCN0673 (Medium).JPG

DSCN0672 (Medium).JPG

You can see the fuel line on here. This from a #2 GL1000 carb that , I guess, had been on the side stand for some time.

DSCN0664 fuel line (Medium).jpg

[sunnbobb]

good info there

[Casper]

Ron

A good essay on some of the recent 'controversy', thanks. My 76 runs great on the stock carbs, and it has more than enough performace to keep me happy, as a grey haired long time biker. I am simply doing my alternant fuel/air delivery system for the fun and challenge it provides me with. I very much enjoy seeing how others try and keep these older bikes running, be that a fully custom one-off soultion or a true factory correct restoration, and any thing between the two, its all good stuff.

[Hal]

Blimey....never seen anything like that on the ones I've stripped!

[mcgovern61]

Wow! Seeing those pictures caused me to look up corrosion in carbs and aluminium and I found an interesting article about ethanol (and how it will kill aluminium carbs).

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/dro ... arburetor/

I agree that if the old carbs start really disintegrating as a result of being left sitting, there may be fewer and fewer options to keep these old bikes going. I for one have a very good set of OEM carbs on my '82 1100, rebuilt by Pistol Pete with the newer seals and they work like clockwork.

I am also very interested in the single carbs and welcome good information, testing and real results (with blabbering about whose is best and yours stinks nonsense!)

[Hal]

Wow! Seeing those pictures caused me to look up corrosion in carbs and aluminium and I found an interesting article about ethanol (and how it will kill aluminium carbs).

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/dro ... arburetor/

I agree that if the old carbs start really disintegrating as a result of being left sitting, there may be fewer and fewer options to keep these old bikes going. I for one have a very good set of OEM carbs on my '82 1100, rebuilt by Pistol Pete with the newer seals and they work like clockwork.

I am also very interested in the single carbs and welcome good information, testing and real results (with blabbering about whose is best and yours stinks nonsense!)

Interesting article. It is another reason to use bypass oil filtration, ( like the Frantz and as fitted to much military equipment including Hummers) as this removes any water from the oil....if ethanol being hygroscopic is causing a lot of water to be sucked into the carb and it's ending up in the oil, it quickly becomes acidic due to combustion blowby.
Remove the water and it's impossible for acids to form.

Not nice.

[gregforesi]

I just like to putz with stuff. If an idea doesn't pan out (my single wheel trailer immediately comes to mind) then oh well. Fix it or move on. It's just a hobby and the white bike is mine - I can do whatever I want to it just as you can do whatever you want to yours.

I have my fingers crossed for Casper, and I'm certainly at least a little bit jealous. He's grabbed a double handful of the good stuff and I'm looking forward to hearing THAT Alberta Clipper howl.

There are a bunch of good wrenches here along with some real engineers and quasi-engineers. No matter what you do, be it mono-shock, fancy front suspension setup, weird carbs, whatever... if you post it it's going to be critiqued. I've got a pocket full of change here and I'm willing to throw my two cents at anything. That's why I always apologize ahead of time.

[CYBORG]

Most carbs, new or old, are made of the same stuff. Maybe what we need is something that will separate the ethanol out of the tank before it gets to the carbs