How to: Fix the blown cap on top of a carb

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RoadKill
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How to: Fix the blown cap on top of a carb

#1

Post by RoadKill »

How to: Fix the blown cap on top of a carb

What you'll need:
Patience
An unfortunately blown carb cap
Good epoxy for both metal and plastic
Tooth Picks or Popsicle Sticks
A Clean surface
Sand Paper (Optional, I used 220grit)

Image

Hopefully this doesn't happen to you. This happened to me because the PO rebuilt the carbs and put the air valves in backwards on number 2. Too much pressure caused the top to pop

You'll want to clean the top and the plastic very well. Any oil, dirt, grime and general crap that is present will hinder the bonding process of the epoxy. I use kerosene to clean it out. Just dampen a clean rag and then wipe it down. I also went around the inside and cleaned any other build up I saw and pushed a rag through the central hole and flossed it as well.

Warning: There is a little breather hole inside the top of the carb that cannot be plugged up. If it gets plugged or blocked the carb top pretty much becomes useless. (picture below)

Image

What I did to prevent it from being blocked was hold the carb top on its side with the hole at the highest point. Gravity will always pull the epoxy down and prevent it from blocking the hole.

You'll pretty much want to hold it sideways anyways throughout the entire process because you do want epoxy going down the center either. If anything gets on the side walls it will again make it pretty much useless. I mean it's already useless, but at least it can still be repaired.

Unfortunately I do not have pictures of the actual process. I had to work fast otherwise the epoxy would run down the side or droop.

Since you'll be holding it on the side, think of it like building a wall. After thoroughly mixing the epoxy as per the packages instructions, carefully apply it with the Popsicle stick or tooth pick at the bottom edge (sideways remember) of the blown hole. Apply a little more each time and slowly build up the wall so that it will cover the hole. You may have to rotate the carb top as the epoxy might start to droop down, just be mindful about the breather hole. Once covered you'll still need to hold it on its side. Continue to carefully apply more epoxy over the new top to make it stronger. Once you are satisfied with the amount of epoxy on there, you'll need to hold it on it's side so it can harden enough that it won't collapse as soon as you put it down.

Image
Image

Now if you have it, resist the urge to stick something down the center and press on the inside of the new cap to try and either hold it up or push it out more. This is bad for two reasons. One, the thing you are using could get stuck to the inside of the cap and then you end up pulling it down and doing the exact opposite of what you want to achieve. Two, any unset epoxy could stick to whatever your using and get pulled down and out with it which will drastically increase the odds of something sticking to the side walls of the slide.

Image

Let it set for 24 hours and you're done. You can test the breather passage hole with a can of compressed air. Just fire it into the small hole on the inside at the top of the carb and see if the air comes out through the big passage.

Optional: With the sand paper you can sand down the epoxy to try and smooth it out so it doesn't look as ugly. Wait 24 hours before doing this as well. I also recommend covering the bottom opening of the carb top with painters tape or masking tape so epoxy dust does not get inside.

Note:
The reason for wanting to do is this if you do not have another top and slide to replace it or you only have a spare top. I read somewhere (Randakk's site I believe) that the slide and top are matched pairs and it is not recommended to interchange them.
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Re: How to: Fix the blown cap on top of a carb

#2

Post by Placerville »

Excellent post. Thank you. I'd recently sent an email to Randall Washington asking if this plug was something he might be able to reproduce as they tend to deteriorate. He said he'd already given it some thought. He said the part could be produced, but because it's dropped into the hole and then the edge of the cap is machined over, it would be virtually impossible to replace. For plugs that are still intact, but deteriorated, he suggested what you've done here: Epoxy, sand and polish.

I have a question for you: I see that you've made a point to not clog the breather hole. Understood. However, in the pictures, I can't see what the hole 'breaths' into. If the cap covers the hole on one side, where would it breath 'to' other than the small space under the plug? Enlighten me.
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Re: How to: Fix the blown cap on top of a carb

#3

Post by RoadKill »

It's more to stop suction really. The hole connects the middle cylinder that guides the slide up and down to the main outter area of the carb top. We'll call it the main chamber.

When the slide goes up, it forces the air through the hole into the center guide cylinder. And sucks it out when the slide goes back down. If that that hole was blocked, the air would have no where to go and the slide wouldn't move when needed. If you look in the last picture, the one of the inside, you can see the exit for it on the inner left side of the guide, the 9 o'clock position.

If it's not clear I can draw up a few pictures.
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Re: How to: Fix the blown cap on top of a carb

#4

Post by Placerville »

RoadKill wrote:It's more to stop suction really. The hole connects the middle cylinder that guides the slide up and down to the main outter area of the carb top. We'll call it the main chamber.

When the slide goes up, it forces the air through the hole into the center guide cylinder. And sucks it out when the slide goes back down. If that that hole was blocked, the air would have no where to go and the slide wouldn't move when needed. If you look in the last picture, the one of the inside, you can see the exit for it on the inner left side of the guide, the 9 o'clock position.

If it's not clear I can draw up a few pictures.
Think I got it. So that small area under the plug is all that's needed for air movement?
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Re: How to: Fix the blown cap on top of a carb

#5

Post by RoadKill »

Yeah, pretty much. The air doesn't need to move fast, it just needs a place to go for when the slides goes up while you accellerate.
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Re: How to: Fix the blown cap on top of a carb

#6

Post by Old Fogey »

RoadKill wrote:It's more to stop suction really. The hole connects the middle cylinder that guides the slide up and down to the main outter area of the carb top. We'll call it the main chamber.

When the slide goes up, it forces the air through the hole into the center guide cylinder. And sucks it out when the slide goes back down. If that that hole was blocked, the air would have no where to go and the slide wouldn't move when needed. If you look in the last picture, the one of the inside, you can see the exit for it on the inner left side of the guide, the 9 o'clock position.

If it's not clear I can draw up a few pictures.
If I'm right, you have the idea but the wrong way round.
If you look at the piston you will see 3 holes running through it. When the throttles are opened, this causes a depression in the inlet manifold which draws the air out of the chamber above the piston through these holes. Since that chamber is also connected to the 'guide' cylinder through the small hole in the cap, it creates a vacuum to raise the piston, thus increasing the fuel as the needle raises along with it.
As the throttle position varies, so will the depression created and likewise the vacuum raising or lowering the piston, helped by the light 'helper' spring.
You can prove this easily. Put the piston into the cap, place your mouth round the piston and suck. The piston will shoot straight up into the cap!
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Re: How to: Fix the blown cap on top of a carb

#7

Post by Old Fogey »

RoadKill wrote:It's more to stop suction really. The hole connects the middle cylinder that guides the slide up and down to the main outter area of the carb top. We'll call it the main chamber.

When the slide goes up, it forces the air through the hole into the center guide cylinder. And sucks it out when the slide goes back down. If that that hole was blocked, the air would have no where to go and the slide wouldn't move when needed. If you look in the last picture, the one of the inside, you can see the exit for it on the inner left side of the guide, the 9 o'clock position.

If it's not clear I can draw up a few pictures.
If I'm right, you have the idea but the wrong way round.
If you look at the piston you will see 3 holes running through it. When the throttles are opened, this causes a depression in the inlet manifold which draws the air out of the chamber above the piston through these holes. Since that chamber is also connected to the 'guide' cylinder through the small hole in the cap, it creates a vacuum to raise the piston, thus increasing the fuel as the needle raises along with it.
As the throttle position varies, so will the depression created and likewise the vacuum raising or lowering the piston, helped by the light 'helper' spring.
You can prove this easily. Put the piston into the cap, place your mouth round the piston and suck. The piston will shoot straight up into the cap!
"Impossible Is Just a Level of Difficulty!..."
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous! :-D
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Re: How to: Fix the blown cap on top of a carb

#8

Post by RoadKill »

That does sound more accurate, I was going on purely on observation. Thanks!
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1976 CB750FOUR, Juliet
1975 CB500T, Elizabeth "Liz"
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Re: How to: Fix the blown cap on top of a carb

#9

Post by rcmatt007 »

the whole purpose of the slides is to equalize the four carbs as you drive down the road. When one sticks, you end up with a carb running different than the other three, and so the bike will run "rough" at a constant speed. Under strong acceleration or deceleration the vacum forces are enough to over come the sticknees, and the bike will seem to run correctly
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