Another project followed me home today, 82 Wing.

[ericheath]

You can get a pretty good idea with a timing light on the cam pulley. One full tooth is 9 degrees, but that’s the cam which moves half of crank speed. So 1/2 tooth is 4.5 degrees at cam which is nine degrees at the crank. In a dark garage you get a pretty good idea of where you’re at. Easier than pulling or dropping the swingarm.

[ritalz]

If I'm hearing you correctly, for an 82 I should be very slightly over half a tooth for a 10 degree advance. If it shows up to be closer to a full tooth, I'll know what I have to do. May have to take it to my sons house/garage in order to get in some solid work time.

[ericheath]

I think that’s correct. When I did mine, 1200 with 1000 heads and ignition, the timing meandered up and down a little but you can see where it is within a few degrees.

[ritalz]

Where are the pick up coils located on the 1200 motor? Or did you use the cam driven set on the 1000 heads? Just curious.

[ericheath]

I have the type that just clamps on a plug wire. I did not, and still do not, use the 1200 pickup coils. The 84 has them like the 1100. The 85-87 has them in front around the crank next to the belts.

[ritalz]

I have a 1200 motor in storage and will have to check to see what type is mounted on that one. Researched some degree wheel templates today. May try to affix one to a cam sprocket and fire up the old timing light. Can't hurt and may tell me what I'm wanting to know.

degreewheel_4697.jpg

[ritalz]

Had the opportunity to do some testing today.
Hooked up a known good battery directly to the starter and it still drags. No joy.

Attached my degree wheel to one of the cam sprockets with some silicone to test the advance.

IMG_20200222_170126_resized_20200222_064207268.jpg

Let it set for a short while and fired her up.

IMG_20200222_171800_resized_20200222_064208750.jpg

This is where it is firing. A full 20 degrees BTC. I think I know what to do next. I will check it once more before I start as I forgot to unhook the vacuum before testing although I don't think it causes hardly any advance at idle.

[pidjones]

Since the cam rotates at 1/2 crank speed, wouldn't that be 10 degrees BTDC? As your degree wheel has +and- 180 totaling 360.

[ritalz]

Then should I attach the wheel to the center pulley and rerun my test?

[Werner]

The cam is turning half speed. So if crank is turned 20 degrees, cam turns only 10 degrees. Cam has turned 20 degrees so cranck has turned 40 degrees. Do it on the crank pulley and you will know for sure.

[ericheath]

Werner is right. Proves your original hunch on the hard starting.

[ritalz]

I thought that was the way it would work. Tried to get some tests done today but the starter died again. Playing musical starters is a PITA. I did get the arm fully extended and there seemed to be no change in the timing. Tried going the other extreme and the starter failed. I want to be able to see the difference on the degree wheel before I am convinced. Also going to look closer at the FSM to see if they give any more info on the timing setup.

[ericheath]

I recall chewy99 or something chasing a long timing issue and it ended up being the locating dowel had been left out. You have the manual, but here’s what mine shows. Going to have to go deep to check that one.

390CB641-C3F0-4BCF-9F1F-1BE6483348E3.jpeg

[ritalz]

Interesting. I have not pulled the spark advancer so cannot say for sure the dowel is there since I haven't looked. Whoever worked on this bike before I got it left out the arm that attaches the vacuum to the plate that holds the pick up coils. No idea how that can even happen.

[ritalz]

Went back to research posts from chewy999 and read what he had to do. His problem was very similar but he was dealing more with not running at all. His efforts are noted and the next time I get to follow up, I will check on the dowel. The FSM didn't really say much on this subject. Still bummed out about the starter problems I've been having. Guess I will bite the bullet and order another one.