1980 KZ1300 - Hen's Teeth Do Exist

[Lucien Harpress]

So, I'm attempting to wake my 1300 up from a typical Michigan winter lay-up, and I immediately start running into familiar problems- sharp pops from the exhaust, dead cylinders, etc. I take this opportunity to swap idle jets in positions 1 and 3. 2 and 5 have already been done, and I'm not touching anything to do with cylinders 4-6 because they've been the ones behaving.

No difference. In fact, cylinders 2 and 5 refuse to fire. Fair enough- those share a coil, and I DID upgrade the originals, so I'll just swap it out. Which I did today- no difference.

Wait a minute. Just for curious, I say to myself, what does the timing look like? I set this about a year ago, and was one of those things I was positive was good. Thankfully it's only two screws to pop off a cover and check.

First thing I notice is that the entire timing plate for all 3 pickups (too new for points- silver linings) is all the way over to one side. Which can't be right. At this point I want to re-set the timing anyway, so for a test I go to loosen the plate, at least get it a bit more centered- come to find out that of the three screws that hold it down, only ONE is actually tight, and the other two are completely backed out.



Seeing how this is goings, I loosen the single screw, rotate the plate back towards near-center, and try firing up the motor again:

Purrs like a dream.

Well, ish. I'll 100% need to re-set the timing correctly rather than just eyeballing it, but to think that's been my issue for who-knows-how-long is.... well, I'm glad I may have found the problem. This one, anyway.

[robin1731]

[Lucien Harpress]

Okay, this timing thing has really started to bug me. I was 100% certain I had the timing on lockdown, but now I'm not so sure. I'm still getting the ever-present "will run on most cylinders all the time", and the dead cylinder keeps switching places every time I turn the bike on, but I really want to get the timing figured out before I dive into anything else.

The most I know is that, with the cover off and the pickups loose, rotating the plate one way will kill the bike, and rotating it the other will smooth it out, until the plate hits the stops in the screw holes. I can't rotate it far enough to kill it the other direction.

I DID pick up a timing light (see- I CAN learn things eventually!), and tried using it today, but while I managed to occasionally catch the TDC mark in the timing window, I was never able to catch the F mark like I was supposed to. I don't know if it's timing light user error, or that I've just got the timing so far out of what it's supposed to I can't rotate the timing plate enough to get it spot-on.

The entire timing unit is geared off another shaft, so it's possible I've just got the whole thing misaligned by one tooth so I'm not getting the proper timing allowance.

I don't know. I definitely have to do some more digging once this blasted rain stops.

[robin1731]

If you see the T mark but not the F mark then yes timing is off. If it's the 900/1000 it would be retarded a lot.

.

[Lucien Harpress]

Spent the afternoon tearing into the pickup mechanism to see if I messed anything up.

Nope, got it right the first time.

Buttoned everything back up, static timed the ignition, had it "running" on at least 4 cylinders, probably 5, occasionally 6 when it backfired and shot flames out the left side up until I ran out of fuel in my IV tank.

Again.

Probably for the best. Not sure what I'm trying to accomplish tonight, so walking away is good. I've got a feeling that fouling plugs (for whatever reason) is my biggest issue right now.

I still haven't figured out why I've ALWAYS had a problem on the left side since day 1, even after going through EVERYTHING, but the fact my problem keeps moving gives me a bit of hope?

Regardless. I'm keeping the new thread title for now.

[OCR]

You might find that using an inline spark detector would be useful in determining if there is spark failure.
My guess is that you ave either a carb feeding too much fuel or spark cutting out, particularly at lower rpm.

[Lucien Harpress]

Did some more work today. No real progress. The bike will still only start on about 3 cylinders until it warms up enough to fire on the rest, even after cleaning the plugs off. It runs slightly better with the airbox cover off, so it's probably getting too much fuel in some way.

What did concern me was when I hooked my timing light up, depending on the plug wire, I was getting real intermittent flashes vs. steady ones on other wires. Now, I can't rule out my crap Harbor Freight timing light being crap, or more fouled plugs, but just for fun I pulled the Ignitor module to do some resistance tests on it.

Which will have to wait until I replace the battery in my meter. Because of course.

(Now, I have spark, or at least juice going to the plug. I can hear the snapping when I pull each plug cap. But what's got me wondering is if I only get that spark some of the time. In any case, checking the igniter can't hurt, but I genuinely hope it's something else- replacement control modules are $100-$300.)

[Lucien Harpress]

Got my meter working, so I did some resistance tests on my igniter box per the directions in the manual.

The downside? Of the 7 or 8 different ways to measure the box, only ONE came back with a measurement in spec. Or a measurement at all.

The upside? I'm still getting spark from all six plugs (I pulled them all and grounded them to the case to be sure), so I'm calling user error on this one. In any case, I'm not spending $300 on a replacement when mine is most likely fine.

That being said, I need to get fresh plugs to recheck the spark on all of them. While I'm getting spark on every plug, a couple are either weak or erratic, BUT they're on different coils, and the other plug on that same coil is fine.

I may just have the carbs set way too rich and am fouling plugs. I certainly hope so. User error is a lot cheaper than mechanical failure.

[Lucien Harpress]

Okay, so timing is taken care of. Finally got the situation between the ignition, plugs, and everything in between figured out, and am 98% certain whenever I lose cylinders, it's because I'm fouling the plugs (for whatever reason).

That "whatever reason" is the next adventure. I decided to spring for a Colortune (which should be showing up in a couple days) to see if THAT will help me dial in the final mixture settings. I know the "correct" way is to do plug checks, but my track record doing that is, like most things I find mechanical, hit or miss.

And besides- what problem can't be solved by throwing MORE money at it?

I should be back shortly with details.

[OCR]

Twin lead coil packs can fail to one side and the other still works. (windings are in pairs inside the casing.)

[Lucien Harpress]

Before putting all the plugs back in, I gapped all of them correctly AND cleaned them. Grounding them to the engine, all 6 had strong, comparable sparks. So I'm confident my ignition is good.

Carb settings (at least idle mixture screw settings) don't bother me. At this point I've had every cylinder on every setting imaginable, and if this is my issue, I'm happy with it. That's fixable.

The only thing that worries me is that, consistently, I'm getting issues from the left side. It's a thing that's happened since the day I brought the bike home, and because I was never able to fully make it go away no matter what settings I played with makes me a bit concerned.

But, I'll deal with that when I get to it.

[Lucien Harpress]

So I finally got out to pop in the Colortune to check my idle screw settings, and (for once) was pleasantly surprised. For the uninitiated, a Colortune is basically a clear spark plug- mainly used for setting idle mixtures by determining what color the combustion flame is and adjusting the mixture (which will change the color) accordingly. It's a fantastic tool for the mechanically inept. Like, well...

[raises hand]

In any case, I was a bit apprehensive. I'd used a Colortune before on a Goldwing, but could never get it to really make much of a difference, or know how to make heads or tails of what I was seeing. Thankfully this went MUCH better. Only about 2 cylinders were correct, and a couple weren't even firing. What I THOUGHT was a decently running engine was really about 4 cylinders working okay enough to cover for the other two. Happily, by the time I was done it actually sounded really nice.

That being said, I'm still getting occasional misses from cylinders 2 and 3, which is fantastic because they don't share a coil OR carb. But who knows- this might just be as good as they can get. Idle mixes are good, and spark (which you could see through the Colortune) was consistent, so it wasn't that.

I might just be to the point where "Thrash the darn thing!" is the best answer. It's still got relatively new rings without many miles under them, so I may just need to find some freeways and open 'er up.

If only Michigan would let go of these blasted 50 degree days already...

[Lucien Harpress]

...I want to break something.

In a story that's become annoyingly repetitive, I attempted a test ride today only to get about 10 feet. Since having it run really quite well yesterday, the ONLY thing I've done is put the gas tank back on. And wouldn't you know it- I'm only getting 4 cylinders working.

I didn't change a single thing, but today a full third of this bike goes from working to not overnight. And it's 3 and 4 that are the two that are dead! I don't think I've even HAD that combination yet! Even better, they're the hardest pair to get to, in every way.

Which means I get to tear everything apart. Again. But not right away. Because if I touch anything now, it's going to be with a sledgehammer.

UPDATE: Fouled plugs. Got the fuel tank off to check the plugs (this is SO much easier on a Goldwing), and sure enough, no spark on 3 and 4. Brush the crap off, ground 'em to the engine- spark. So I'm hoping I just set the idle mixes too rich on those two, and it was never able to fire to burn that crap off. In any case, I know what I'm monkeying with this weekend.

On the plus side, the four cylinders that DID work all had a nice consistent plug color. It would be SO nice If I was done messing with those.

[Lucien Harpress]

Did a bit more fiddling with the two middle carb settings to try to alleviate my plug fouling (basically leaned the mixture settings down until the cylinder started missing, then backed them out just a touch), and after a bit of a plug swap finally got it running on all six pistons (again). After a brief issue with air in the fuel line and too little gas in the tank (FYI- pushing a KZ1300? NOT fun), I managed a decently long trip around the block.

Verdict? While I don't think it's running perfectly, I'm resigning myself to the idea that "perfect" is never going to be something I'm going to get. It's still doing some very minor strange stuff, but it's been a while since I had an inline bike, so it may be normal. In any case, it does everything a bike should do, like going, stopping, and idling pretty well, and it's doing it better than I've managed to get it so far.

The big test tomorrow is if I can get is started from cold without fouling any plugs, and if I can do so consistently. If so? I'm riding the stink out of it.

[Lucien Harpress]

So I thrashed the bike a bit the other day (20ish miles) and overall I'm relatively happy. It seemed to do everything satisfactorily, and once it was warmed up ran consistently well. Pulling the plugs showed some VERY minor color variations, but similar enough to know that when I'm operating on the main jets, everything is peachy.

But what warrants a new post is something I JUST learned- using a long extension combined with a universal swivel, I CAN remove my inner two spark plugs WITHOUT taking off the gas tank. This may have low-key blown my mind.

I really, really, REALLY don't want to jinx it, but I may actually be able to ride the 1300 to Gilmore this year. Maybe......