Piper Pa1200 BugSmasher Build

[Rednaxs60]

Nice project! These older GWs are extremely versatile. Understand the Mrs's concern, I have to share the garage with her car too.

[CPOTED]

Sorry to have been among the missing for so long. Since my last post, as I promised the wife, I have been knocking off must-do-first honey-do list items, and dealing with the medical realities of being in my dotage.

Before many of you were born, I learned that it is a VERY bad idea to buy a vehicle that does not run as the motor-driveline running-gear donor for a project you are working on. For me, this nearly always brought unnecessary burdens, costs and headaches to the project. But, I ain't getting no younger.

I need some advice. I might have been a mechanic since about 1972, but I was NEVER a motorcycle mechanic and have very little experience with them. I am a total NUBE when it comes to Goldwings, but I have been reading what I can about them, especially the 1200.

I have come across an advertisement for a 1987 Honda GL1200 Gold Wing Aspencade with about 65,000 on the ticker. The owner states that it has been sitting in a barn for about 10 years due to a bad stator. He states that the engine is free. I had budgeted about $2,500 for a running GW, and this one is selling for a very small fraction of that. The price (including flatbed) is so low that I don't think I would have much problem convincing my wife to let me buy it even though my home-work isn't done yet.

The research I have done here and other places indicates that the stator on these bikes do give trouble. I also read that fixing the problem isn't all that easy for most people, so the stator problem could be the reason this thing was parked. The photos of the bike DO indicate very long term storage.

One thing that does give me pause ... this bike has a trailer hitch on the back. To me, this indicates hard use and maybe something I should avoid.

As I said in previous posts, I do anticipate replacing the timing belt, seals, clutch and do carb work as I would on ANY 1987 vehicle. I also have been thinking that doing away with the bikes alternator stuff and putting on some type of small GM one-wire could be possible, considering I have all the room in the world to come up with some crazy modification ... remember ... this will never be ridden as a bike ever again.

My research does not show anything particularly tragic that goes wrong with the 1200 motor and drive train ... but maybe I missed something.

In any event, even though it goes against all the advice I would give somebody about buying an old MGB, I am sorely tempted to pull the trigger on this one.

FWIW, I DO intend to get a look at the bike to make sure it hasn't been in an accident, make certain that the engine is free, to see if there is oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil ... and give both items the sniff test for overheating.

I'm not asking for anyone to travel through space and time to give me the lowdown on this bike, but I would appreciate it a lot if you old salts could offer some opinions before I go try to sell this idea to the wife.

[CYBORG]

I have bought several 1200's like that for 2 or 3 hundred dollars mostly for parts. Engines in general are tough. The stator thing is often just a burnt plug that connects it to the regulator. That being said, I do run an automotive alternator on my 1200. Easy to fabricate. Trailer hitch should not be a concern. The engine is a real work horse. I think the 1200 is s good choice for your project.

[CPOTED]

I have bought several 1200's like that for 2 or 3 hundred dollars mostly for parts. Engines in general are tough. The stator thing is often just a burnt plug that connects it to the regulator. That being said, I do run an automotive alternator on my 1200. Easy to fabricate. Trailer hitch should not be a concern. The engine is a real work horse. I think the 1200 is s good choice for your project.

Thank you for the input.

You confirmed everything I have read about this motor and trans. As tough and reliable as they come and with just a modicum of maintenance, not much goes wrong with them.

I've passed up the 1500's because of the problems I see with the reverse gears ... and all the ones that came after that produce wwwaaaaaaaayyyyyy more power than I need given the aerodynamics and weight of this project. And, after 75 years, I think I know me pretty well. If I were to put the 1800 in it, I would definitely like to see how fast it would go ... and end up in jail.

As I said in my very long post, I really don't know anything about these bikes and appreciate all the information I can get.

[CPOTED]

BTW ... Back in the 1970s and 80's when I was racing British roadsters, I came across the writings of Paul Van Valkenburgh, an engineer who worked for GM, Penske Racing, and Chaparral helping them with their racing programs. I read the ink off the pages of Mark Donohue's Unfair Advantage and Race Car Engineering & Mechanics, in which he explained the "friction circle theory of driving" that he and Donohue developed back in the day. He also wrote many papers for the government and the Society of Automotive Engineers explaining "handling", or how vehicles interact with road surfaces and the air they go through.

Here and there, people have asked me how I expect my BugSmasher is going to handle when I get it on the road ... with almost all of its weight between the tires ... and the single tire in the rear.

It turns out that van Valkenburgh wrote a paper on the subject of reverse trikes, and a small article for Cycle Magazine. A couple months back I came across the magazine article, but am still in the process of locating the paper. I will share what ever papers I can find.

Three Wheel Dynamics Van Vaulkenberg.jpg

[Sidecar Bob]

Replacing the stator is pretty straightforward but getting at it involves removing the engine and opening it up, which is beyond a lot of owners' abilities. Heck, many of them aren't even up to determining whether the problem is the stator or the connector. And when they see what is involved they figure the job would eat up enough hours of shop time that having a pro do it cost more than they are willing to invest.
I don't think that would be an issue for you.
But you are planning to put it inside a body with lots of room and probably more lights and other loads than most bikes so if you do find out that it is indeed the stator and not the connector the automotive alternator conversion might be a better option for you.

As for buying a non runner, if it is that cheap and turns out to not be fixable you could probably part it out and make enough to buy a better one. Or keep it for parts for the one you end up with.....

[Fred Camper]

I like your plan Cpoted.

[CPOTED]

I like your plan Cpoted.

This post caused me to have a sleepless night.

The PLAN is fairly simple and straight ahead: (A) Build a tadpole reverse trike using a VW front end, a Honda 1200GL and the fuselage from a Piper Cherokee.

The PLAN is not: (B) Start off with a dead motorcycle which I have NO experience on, that has been laying around for 10 years (allegedly) in a barn gathering dust and MORE problems.

As I said in post #62 of this thread: "In any event, even though it goes against all the advice I would give somebody about buying an old MGB ....".

Through this night, I went back and re-read some of the threads and articles I have read on this Forum and others and looked again at the photos in those threads.

I think the final blow came from a photo in an article/thread somewhere about draining carbs and fuel systems.

I hate to tell you how many times I have seen that much crud, or more, in the fuel bowls of "project cars" customers already paid money to buy. Remember ... that crud is only something that came from laying around dead for 10 years and most likely NOT the reason the car was dead to begin with. Now factor in all of the dried out and cracked vac lines & rubber seals and all of the internal surfaces that should've but didn't have rust preventing oil on them.

I might not know anything about Goldwings, but I've been an old school, busted knuckle mechanic since the early 1970's. Were I to buy this $350 dead motorcycle, then all of the pain and misery I have seen and experienced over these many years would have been for nothing.

There are far too many running and ride-able GL1200s out there for +/- $2,000 for me to ignore my learnings.

You're right Fred.

I'm going continue lurking and learning. I'm going to stick to plan A. I think it's a good one too.

Happy Holidays All!

[Fred Camper]

Because your project is to make the machine, Plan A i the most reasonable approach as the Machine needs the bulk of your attention not the power-plant. You are spot on. Glad you see it this way.

[Sidecar Bob]

On the other hand, if it is cheap enough it doesn't have to be what you actually use. It can be handy to have a supply of parts on hand for a bike this old......

[CPOTED]

Sssshhhhhhhhh!

When I sold my last MGB, we filled up the bed of a pickup truck AND a trailer with MGB spares.

My loving and adoring wife is still a bit tender about all that.

BTW, in case this whole BugSmasher thing don't work out, I have come up with some alternatives.

[Easter]

Just get on with it! I can't wait much longer.

[CPOTED]

My LAZY ass is done with forums.

[CYBORG]

Always hate to see an animal in pain. Will be sending all my love, and positive energy his way. Hope he gets well soon.

[Easter]

pets are friends and certainly worthy of our love and prayers.