GL 1000 cafe fighter

[bladredhead]

I'm still not on facebook...
flatslides look great, but seem to be a pain to tune them.
and everybody seems to want them and therefore they are way to expensive at the moment

they are a popular upgrade, no doubt. i've seen racks of 4 go pretty cheap because they are marketed to a specific bike that is not popular. you're going to have to make custom mounting and linkage parts anyway so it doesn't matter what bike they were intended for.

[ericheath]

I got a chance to measure the combustion chambers yesterday. I also used an online calculator to see the estimated combustion chamber size. Since we know the stock CR, the cyl diameters, the stroke, I could get the estimated combustion size. I measured the domes three times using a piece of flat clear plastic and got 7.9 ccs for the 1000 and 7.8 ccs for the 1200, within 1cc like Superskypilot posted. (he didn't post the numbers just the one cc difference). Using that info the mathematical way says the combustion area for the 1000 should be 35.8 ccs. That's more than any other published numbers I have seen, or found. When I measured using the plastic I got 32.9 ccs. According to the same online calculator, that would put the stock gl1000 at 10.1. The 1200 with my measures averaged 35.8ccs, but according to the same online CR calculator, it should be more, quite a bit more. Using my numbers for the 1000 head on the 1200 block would put the CR way high, at 11.7. But using the 35.8ccs it is 10.7:1.

I am sure I am missing something here, because I've been wrong before, I've been ignorant before, and my equipment and tools are basic and primitive, but everything I can see should make the 1000 heads on a 1200 block a compression increase. The big question is, how much? If it got up into the 11's that could create problems. Then there's the static versus dynamic, the way the different cam fills at various levels. Lots of variables.

[MSGT-R]

Are you sure you got your decimal point in the right place?

[joedrum]

well i hope i do it all over but the trying now the 1200 in the 77 all hooked up...i put 1100 carbs on no bug reason just the easiest right now ...im eating lunch have to tighten horns to carbs still looks like the spreading of the carbs is going good seems okay ...also have to go get some gas and oil and coolant yet .... i will post what happens

[ericheath]

[joedrum]

the 1200 test was a complete success it ran great ...1100 carbs did great on it so far ..no smoking what so ever so it is doable ...this bike is going to run good

[EHE]

well EHE is back in the house again... it has been quite a while I realize... Since December last year I used my very rare sparetime on a leading link front fork for an old Beemer (just check it on my facebook if you'd like to see all my projects; Yes, since this winter I also joined the facebookfamily... )

and right now I have my previous daily runner standing on the workbench for some proper maintenance

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and after that I will try to sell it to gain some extra budget for the Cafe Fighter project.

still didn't run into a proper 1200 engine for a decent price, so very probaby I will first built this bike with "Original" 1000 engine, but want to let it loose some mass on the flywheel (is that proper english?) and change the carbs for mikunis of a Ducati. They are also meant for vertical mounting and are easy to tune (at least they were on my Ducati) I know it might loose some torque, but I'd like it to give it a mor agressive throttle response

hope to come with some proper updates soon!

[past in time tony]

Glad your back at it, ready for more updates!

[ericheath]

bump

[wittmann]

it's pretty hard work to understand exactly what you all are writing down in those not so well known american way of technical english speaking...

But let me try to summarize and see if I got it right:

just putting the 1000 heads on the 1200 lower end will give probably loss of compression (but we ar not sure...)
Or should I read that by putting 1000 heads on the 1200 lower end the pistons will hitt the valves and in a way to prevent that I will loose compresion?

with to less compression I could always add the supercharger... that's right... but in this stage I would rather not... I'd like to try to not make this too complicated at once...

@ bladredhead: no you didn't miss anything, but I would rather not use the 1000 carbs, because they are far away from quick response.... The 1100's are a bit better, but have smaller diameter. GSXR could be a lot more agressive (I hope...) and that friend of mine with the barnell clutch brought up the idea of these carbs
I have no idea how that shipping works, but if it's not to much trouble to find out I would be delighted
But perhaps better post some pic before going in al that trouble so I can also check if these are the ones that my friend advised and I'd better be going to look around overhere how much these things are worth to decide whether shipping them overseas is worth it.
But for sure Thanks a lot for the proposal!


but in the meantime I run into a nice rearcontrol set from a kawasaki ZX6R (year 2012) and I think they will look just great on my bike!

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it also makes me get rid of the ridiculous big original braking cilinder and will make the riding position a bit more sporty

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.
Please can I ask IF those Kawasaki ZX6R footpegs DO actually line up with the pivot bolt AND with the current footpeg mount on the Wing ?... They look close in the photo but it would be great to know that they were a perfect fit !!..... What is the gear change side like ? does it line up as well ??

[EHE]

no, the footpegs don't line up just like that simple...
for me its no problem, because I'm changing the frame already, so its no problem to make new mounting points


concerning this project, the plans changed again... yeah, I know, I'm not so steady...


as I sold my front swingarm on my current side car for a very reasonable price, I couldn't resist on starting to build a new side car rig...

So now I'm gonna use this cafe fighter setup to build a sidecar with 3 wheels of 17"x 7J and I will not be building a front swing arm again, but a hub steering front

a very rough setup with the wheels.

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the 1200 engine I bought for the current sidecar will be placed in this rig.

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my current sidecar rig is downgraded a lot...

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with the original brakes and the stock front end... its kinda scary to drive it the fast way I was used to ride it...

the progress will not go very fast, but hopefully 2014 is the year I'm going to focuss on this project....

[joedrum]

well ok ive read this thread some again ... still no tech talker but my hands are quite skilled ... first off with a modified 1200 with 1000 heads and early cams put on ... you can forget about stocks carbs of any oldwing model... unless you want to reinvent them through jetting and springs changes ...truth is the vacume of the 1200 motor sucks the slides home to full blast not far off throttle and from there its carb function is totally out of wack ...
as far as compression I don't know the figures ... but there is absolutely no off throttle stumble to this set up what so ever....the complete opposite is true ... this set up will yank the bars out of your hands easy ...the 1200 set up would just literally such bowls completely dry before you got very far at all ... I was totally amazed at how quickly this happen ..
from there I decided not to reinvent the stock carb rack and went to a weber .32-34 dtlm.. hmm think that's the letters ...single carb set up...sheesh I am still working with bike and carb set up ... this winter we are having is quite the project stopper at my house ... but I will tell you this is an entirely different bike now ... it makes the stock oldwings seem like volts wagon compaired to a porches ...
truth is ..this set up can turn a oldwing into a super hp road rocket ...a bike that has so much natural power it can break anything on the bike id say in flat out torque at any rpm ...the deal is to me so far is when you match weber carb with this modified oldwing 1200 it is perfection mixed with perfection ... and the out come is tricky to get right and I am still doing that .... but what I already got is so huge ... this bike will never look bad in power or reliability ... I am not scared of any bike out there ...be supercharged nitrous or what ever... or even modern crotch rockets ... the unknown of this mod are not that unknown to me ... best bang for effort mod on a bike I ever have done ...

[EHE]

well joe... despite all my eagerness to tune the 1200 engine, I think I will first build it with the stock 1200 engine. Building the hub steering and a complete new sidecar frame is already quitte a challenge, so I'm postponing the engine tuning part to a later timing

[Easter]

EHE, was just thinking about you this morning as your engineering work is so interesting and I was curious where your project had gotten to.

joedrum: If you have done an update to your build I have missed it. If so where? If not when?

[EHE]

ouch... is it that long time ago again already?


in my other topic ( these pipes sound smooth) i will explain later were I've been lately and why so little progress from my side... but a few weeks ago i decided to just try to find out how easy the 1000 heads will fit on the 1200 engine .

well its easy; with a 1200 gasket it's plug and play.
I was a little bit affraid that the bigger 1000 valves would hit the piston in TDC, but with the piston in TDC i can still push the valves about 5 mm inside before it hits the piston.

To bad I still don't have a clue about the compression, but i will do some tests later on to measure the compression rates by measuring the volumes.
Cause I still want to build up this engine with a supercharger I think lowering compression rates is still very wise, but till how low? ... i don t know yet

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as some of you might know I already did have some experience with putting in a stock 1200 engine in a 1000 frame and that already gave so much fun I will first put in a regular 1200 engine first in this bike and then I will take the time build the ultimate 1200/1000 supercharged engine