Test coil

[KSmith]

I finally had time to install the new coils. Still the cylinder 3 & 4 are not firing. I measured the the blue/yellow and the yellow wires with a volt meter at the connection point to the Dyna electronic ignition. blue /yellow read 11.9 volts and the yellow read 3.8 volts. How do you test the Dyna to insure it is working correctly?

Any thoughts?
Ciao
Ken

[gltriker]

I finally had time to install the new coils. Still the cylinder 3 & 4 are not firing. I measured the the blue/yellow and the yellow wires with a volt meter at the connection point to the Dyna electronic ignition. blue /yellow read 11.9 volts and the yellow read 3.8 volts. How do you test the Dyna to insure it is working correctly?

Any thoughts?
Ciao
Ken

Read, understand and follow this, first . Watch this post's attached dynamic Dyna modules test video, too.
https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic ... 63#p806163

IF the Dyna S(?) is discovered to be faulty, Cedric has another document to address that problem, as well
Main point there, you will find this considerably less expensive DynaS clone listed on ebay. search DS1-3 ...its less than $50 . Lots of sellers to pick from
https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=77231

[DUGG]

Let’s start with Ohm testing is pretty much worthless.
I can’t tell you how many components I have ohm tested over the years that test good but are defective.
The only way to truly test a circuit is under load.
Your voltmeter is a much better tool than the ohm meter.
But really for testing a problem like this you need a spark tester and a 12 V test light.
First question I have have you tested for spark, using a spark tester? Not a spark plug with a questionable ground, laying on the engine.
If there’s no spark, the next test would be is the 12 V power supply to the suspected coil good. And the only way that can truly be tested is with the engine cranking or running.
If you have a proper voltage supply to the coil while cranking/running. the next step is hooking up a 12 V test light to ground and to the negative side of the coil.
As you’re cranking the engine or running the engine that light should flash on and off as it triggers the coil.

[KSmith]

Yes there is 11 volts to the black and white power wires.
The blue wire under the umbrella is constantly on when cranking.
The yellow wire under the umbrella was flashing when cranking.
With the Key on and the with the Dyna unplugged both blue and yellow read 11.3 volts.

Note the engine idles smoothly on just the 2 cylinders

[DUGG]

Sounds like the ignition isn’t grounding that coil.
It should pulse like the other wire when cranking.
Were does that wire come from?
Go there and test.

[KSmith]

From the new coils I installed.

[DUGG]

IMG_8524.png

That wire comes from the pick up coil mounted where the points used to be.
I would check the splice connector on the white green to red. If It’s a scotch lock replace it with a proper heat shrink butt connector. Properly crimped with a pair of good high-quality crimping tools. Not a pair of pliers.
Or soldering
Length of schematic, my guess would be you’ve got a bad pick up coil or bad wiring to the pick up coil, or from the pick up coil. There could be an open in that wire between the pick up coil and the ignition coil.
So as I said, my next step would be go check that wire at the source, the pick up coil

[gltriker]

I put the coils back in, installed the new spark plug caps and started up the engine. Again cylinders 3 and 4 were not firing.
I believe it must be the coil. I have an additional question. When I rebuilt the GL in 2012 I put in a Dyna ignition and never had any issues!

Yes there is 11 volts to the black and white power wires.
The blue wire under the umbrella is constantly on when cranking.
The yellow wire under the umbrella was flashing when cranking.
With the Key on and the with the Dyna unplugged both blue and yellow read 11.3 volts.

Note the engine idles smoothly on just the 2 cylinders

The 13 years since installed Dyna S ignition assembly has apparently lost the ability to perform electrically switching the primary ignition ground path on-and-off in the left side (cyls. 3 and 4 ) Dyna module.

For less than $50 you can replace the original Dynatek ignition with a very similar appearing far east clone. I have read the DS1-3 clone is reliable for purpose.
viewtopic.php?t=77231

I have installed several of these and have had success with each one.

The DS1-3 clone is an exact installed procedure to replace an original Dynatek Dyna S . take Nike's advice... Just Do It !

[gltriker]

snip-
If you have a proper positive voltage supply to the coil while cranking/running. the next step is hooking up a 12 V test light to ground and to the negative side of the coil.
As you’re cranking the engine or running the engine that light should flash on and off as it triggers the coil.

hang on, here we go

Note: KSmith is Ken, my fellow on-line sharing email conversations Dyna S troubleshooting partner New York State (me) to California (Ken) approximately 3,000 miles distant

Ken and I, first time, had a telephone conversation back in mid-June about my method to dynamically test for both individual Dyna S module's operational integrity with a low watts 12v test probe light.

I offered up this tried-and-true method, but although I had questioned Ken whether +12volts dc was available at both unplugged double socket female terminals under the rubber umbrella, I hadn't considered that detail should have included in the attached post --With Video-- I had composed in March, 2022 because that bike's problematic engine was running on all 4 cylinders, until there was, a "Sudden loss of power".
https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic ... 63#p806163

(clearly, from many years of practical troubleshooting experience, DUGG recognized the probable fault was in the negative ( ground ) side of the primary ignition circuit, as well).

For the next round of off-Forum troubleshooting, Ken and I 'conversed' via email, only.

I've got photos Ken and I shared Thursday afternoon via multiple email conversations, which helped Ken prove out the left side Dyna S module was indeed no longer dynamically switching the ground path to the left side ignition coil, on-and-off for cylinders 3 and 4.

Friday afternoon, Ken and I agreed we should share our 'conversational' ignition troubleshooting adventure, ( of sorts ) here in the Club public Forum, too .

to be continued --

[gltriker]

I had contacted Ken Wednesday evening with an NGW Club private message

Recipient: KSmith

Ken-

I read the conversation you and DUGG were having on the public Forum.

(You had previously read, understood and followed my path to discovery information, well.)

But
I very much need to see a photo of your bike's -suspected to have failed- Dyna S ignition assembly still installed on the engine, then when entirely removed from the engine.

Ken sent the next 3 photos-(not yet embellished by me)-to my email Thursday afternoon. (I got busy working them over with 'Paint', Friday night)

image2 - 13 Years old Dyna S tnstalled on Ken's GL1000 engine.png

image1 - 13 tears old Dyna S ROTOR and ignition advancer assembly.png

image0 - underside view of 13 years old DynaS baseplate.png

Of course, the ground path integrity must be mechanically clean.
zero corrosion where the Dyna S baseplate is mounted onto the engine is more critical to the ground path switching responsibilities the Dyna modules perform, compared to good old breaker points operational simplicity.

I had partially disassembled an almost new Dyna S ignition assembly several years ago.

20220311_205750 (1) - Dynatek Dyna S 2018.png

I have exceeded the photo file post limit

to be continued

[gltriker]

I unbolted the two modules off the baseplate to see what the underside of a new Dyna S module looked like. Note the small spot of dried 'paste' where both modules contacted the baseplate.

20220311_214236 - Dyna S modules removed from baseplate (1).png

photos of both modules' underside.

20220311_220003 - newer version right side Dyna S module (cyls 1 and 2) 2018-ish.png

20220311_215551 - left side Dyna S module - cyls. 3 and 4 )2018).png

Although, I (we) can't see inside the modules, I understand the primary ground path switching circuitry inside both modules is powered up by the red wire -typically scotch-locked to the positive turn signal supply green/white wire. That's all it does.

Of course, the ground path integrity must be mechanically clean where the Dyna S baseplate is fastened to the engine, then continuing through contact surfaces where both Dyna modules are fastened to the Dyna S baseplate.

Corrosion accumulated where the Dyna S baseplate is mounted to the engine will negatively affect the ground path switching duties the Dyna modules must perform; more-so, compared to good old breaker points operational simplicity.

AND the Dyna S rotor

20221022_180555 - Dyna S rotor view with magnet (2018-ish).jpg

20221022_175556 - adjuster hex key attracted to the Dyna S rotor magnet.png

to be continued

[gltriker]

At some point as our forensic investigation was continuing, Ken inquired should he remove both Dyna modules from their baseplate, too.
Enthusiastically, YES. I had always wondered if corrosion hidden under a module, where it is clamped against its grounded baseplate might cause a Dyna S module to become inoperative.
Here's what Ken uncovered.

image0 - had to check for contamination between 'retired' Dyna Smodule module and baseplate contact surfaces.png

I directed my friend to scrape the white film off the cyls 3 and 4 module and the adjacent baseplate surfaces and reassemble the Dyna S ignition assembly.

Ken reinstalled the Dyna S assembly onto the engine, then dynamically tested both modules functionality with his testing light. Again.

Note: Ken had sent me his own video Thursday afternoon of him doing exactly that same dynamic testing as I had previously demonstrated in my video from March, 2022.
*

Video (1).mov

*
No change...cylinders 3 and 4 ignition coil can't function with a retired Dyna module.
Ken has since ordered a clone DS1-3 to replace the 13 yrs old Dyna S

Over to you, Ken

[redglbx]

Gl & Dugg ,, excellent tutorial ! Thankyou ! So I’m wondering if some time disassembling the Dyna Modules from the base plate then cleaning everything then reassembling after adding a good amount of what I assume is a heat sink paste (what do you recommend?) to the module to baseplate interface..

This conversation is timely since I’ve been struggling with an intermittent “chuff” in the left side exhaust and have suspected a problem with the module grounding but really couldn’t prove it.. But after my 2 back surgeries I have been unable to work or diagnose this problem. I have since been able to do a limited amount of work to fix this and have decided it has to be either one of the carbs idle circuit or one of the coils. I am currently redoing the oe 1000 carbs and once they are done I will replace the current 1100 carbs.

I have years ago replaced the Dyna module with a Prestolite ignition that I originally replaced the oe points with but this setup is really hard to balance and had no effect on the chuff. I have also replaced the spark plugs several times as I have had weird problems over the years with the iridium plugs but the chuff remains,,,, I also altered/changed/eliminated the plug caps but the chuff remains..

So I’m down to carbs or coils , but it may be another week or so as I’m waiting for parts because i want to ensure things are as perfect as they can be to hopefully eliminate the chuff ! By the way I also did multiple compression tests and leak down tests that always shows good.

[DUGG]

Gl thanks for pointing out that the ground side is as important as the power side.
Yes, the proper ground to the engine is needed for the system to function correctly.

And I would recommend using some sort of heat paste between the pick up coil/module and the base plate

[KSmith]

Today I finished cutting the air filter housing snorkel and painted it to fit over the after marker coil. I should be getting the DS1-3 module in the mail soon. For now I have been cleaning up the bike. I has a few stone chips on the finish since I restored it in 2014. Over all the GL looks great. I will take a few more pictures when I install the DS1-3.
Ciao for now
Ken