All Balls steering bearings fitment issue on a '76

[Shadowjack]

Red Loctite used to be labeled "stud and bearing mount". Put a few drops on the outside of the lower race and install everything. It'll likely never come out without heat.

[jimbonaut]

5/76 would be a late model 1976.

That's great info, many thanks. So I should order some bearings for the '77 model instead? Out of interest, can you tell me how the numbering works? I assumed 5/76 indicated the bike was made in May 1976.

[jimbonaut]

Red Loctite used to be labeled "stud and bearing mount". Put a few drops on the outside of the lower race and install everything. It'll likely never come out without heat.

I did wonder about epoxy'ing in the race but wasn't sure if that was a good idea or not. Would it hold up to the clangs and clanks of pounding potholes and the like? I'm just wary of the thing coming loose and things getting sketchy under braking.

[gltriker]

Red Loctite used to be labeled "stud and bearing mount". Put a few drops on the outside of the lower race and install everything. It'll likely never come out without heat.

I did wonder about epoxy'ing in the race but wasn't sure if that was a good idea or not. Would it hold up to the clangs and clanks of pounding potholes and the like? I'm just wary of the thing coming loose and things getting sketchy under braking.

Loctite has more than one retaining compounds formulas that would serve the purpose handily. (swimmingly?)

First thing, though. Have you accurately measured the outside diameter of the ball bearings lower bearing race you removed from the bike's steering head? Yes? Good.
Have you accurately measured the outside diameter of the lower tapered bearing race that was provided in the All Balls kit?
If the difference of outside diameters in those accurately measured lower bearing races is within the Loctite products clearance dimension spec. (bondline gap), and the component installation is performed as laid out in Loctite documentation, lateral shock loads are inconsequential.

Here's a screenshot of a variety of suitable products listing I located on Amazon.

edit; I just noted though, these products have Loctite product formulation numbers , but are not genuine Loctite products. The price for a large container of this clone product is miniscule in comparison.


Back in 2017, Loctite 680 solved the wallowed out clearance problem at the installation site of one of the two wheel bearings in my trike's front Lester wheel.
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Screenshot 2024-07-24 231931 - Loctite products clone sold on amazon.jpg

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Keep in mind, if the installed clearance is greater than a few thousandths, concentricity of the upper and lower tapered bearings' centerline may be problematic.

Loctite website
https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/ ... 35212.html

[jimbonaut]

Outstanding, great info. Thanks a million - I'll have a look in to this product (and the Loctite) and if the gap is within spec for one of these products to work then that could definitely be an option.

I've contacted All Balls as well who are looking into it, perhaps if they could know the cut-off date for Honda GL manufacture in the year 1976 (when then steering head specs changed) they could add this to their product info for the bearing. I'm waiting to hear back from their chief engineer ("We've got top men working on it right now". "Who?". "Top. Men".) and if someone knows then I can pass this info on to them

[robin1731]

5/76 would be a late model 1976.

That's great info, many thanks. So I should order some bearings for the '77 model instead? Out of interest, can you tell me how the numbering works? I assumed 5/76 indicated the bike was made in May 1976.

Yes, May of 76. That is very near the end of the model year, which start coming out around September of the previous year.

[jimbonaut]

Thanks a ton guys. Always learning something new on this forum. Ok, once I hear back from All Balls I'll let them know about the model year/steering neck alteration and see what they say. In the meantime I think I'll return the kit for the '76 and order the kit for the '77 (part #22-1020).

I'll also measure the OEM bearing against the '76 kit too - great to know about the Loctite retaining compound if things come to that. I found some on amazon and am just reading through the reviews. One that stood out was "If 271 red Loctite had a baby with the Devil, it would be named Loctite 680...if you are looking for something which will lock two metal parts together forever, this is the stuff". Sounds like the good stuff alright.

[Sidecar Bob]

FWIW, motorcycle production generally changes to the next year's model in the last quarter of the year so that the new models can be in the distributors' warehouses in time for the January bike shows. Because of that it is actually far more common to find that bikes made for the North American markets were actually built during the previous year (my '83 was made in 10/82 for example).
AFAIK most later production goes to distributors in the southern hemisphere where the riding season starts later.
I suspect that Honda may have been surprised by the number of GoldWings they sold the first couple of years so they had to increase production and ship bikes made later in the year over here.

[jimbonaut]

I've measured the OD of the OEM lower race, 50.00mm. The All Balls lower race measures 50.08mm. I've been in touch with the All Balls engineer who is getting back to me with measurements for the '77 All Balls lower race - I'll post his reply here.

Out of interest, anyone know what the ID of the lower steering neck is on the '76 model, and the '77?

The difference between the OD's of the OEM race and All Balls race is 0.028". The specs for the Loctite 680 say capable of filling diametral gaps up to 0.015. However the All Balls guy said that creating burrs inside the steering neck with an automatic punch would give the race something to bite on and (I suppose) reduce the gap to within spec. What do you think? Ghetto?

[robin1731]

Beyond ghetto when you consider many have used the correct all balls kit without having to do anything but install them normally.

[jimbonaut]

I posted the measurements the wrong way round - the OD of the OEM bearing race is 50.08mm, the All Balls race measures 50mm.

I agree with you Robin, it's not the approach I want to take. Thing is though I thought I had purchased the right kit, and I've installed bearings before so I'm pretty sure I know how to do it. I cocked stuff up in the past through truth be told but haven't we all.

From what I can find on the web (and I hope to get this confirmed or denied one way or another) the OD of a 1977 lower bearing race is 55mm. Which clearly wouldn't fit either in the neck on my bike.

And the part number of the CX500 bearing set is the same as the '76 GL set. So I'm not sure that'll work either.

Edited to add - I've re-measured the OEM race and All Balls race in inches with the new calibers - the difference between them is only 0.003". This would put the gap within the working specs of the Loctite 680 product. Have to admit I'm very surprised such a small difference means an interference fit for one (the OEM race) and installable-by-hand for the All Balls.

[jimbonaut]

Heard back from the All Balls engineer - OD on a 1977 lower race is 55mm. So that's definitely not my problem. Does indeed look like I have the right kit but for whatever reason the steering neck is a few thousands wider than expected. The OEM race was most certainly an interference fit and took all the expected physicality to remove it. So unless the CX500 race is a few thousands bigger than the GL then I'm not sure it'll work either.

[jimbonaut]

Still following along? I know, it's a wild ride. Loctite R680 arrived today - I'm going to forgo the automatic punch (which arrived yesterday - any excuse to buy a new tool) and just install the race with this stuff instead. I think I'll add a note inside the steering head (for the poor soul who at some point in the future might have to replace the head bearings again) that they'll need a blowtorch to get the thing out. And $5 to buy themselves a beer.

[pjlogue]

Had the same problem with both my '76 GL 1000 and '76 CB 750. Use the All Balls lower bearing/race and re-use the stock upper bearing/race. The lower's do the work of supporting the weight of the bike while the upper just stabilize the steering tube. Both my bikes had the "dimples" in the lower bearings but the uppers were like new.

-P.

[jimbonaut]

Races and bearings installed - used the Loctite R680 on the lower race and it seemed to hold just fine. Damn that stuff is strong.

When I inserted the steering stem up through the neck to check for fitment it seems like the dust seal is grabbing somewhere (maybe on the race? Or against the inside the neck?) - rather than the new bearing spinning nicely in the race it seems like the dust seal is impeding it somehow. Is this normal? I was expecting the bearing to engage freely with the race.