E10 Ethanol blend gas bad over winter months or Desiccant?

[jdvorchak]

Generic alcohol/methanol/ethanol molecular structure is close to water. The water molecules and alcohol molecules actually combine on a molecular level and become something else. That something else is flammable and mixes well with gasoline. The example I'm most familiar is if you combine equal parts of water and alcohol you will end up with a liquid that is slightly less volume that the sum of the two parts. In other words water fits inside of alcohol.

A good thing right? Except in the real world having 10% or more methanol (corn distilled alcohol) actually degrades gasoline in a relatively short time. Add the presence of water and the resulting mixture is rendered unusable in an internal combustion engine. Not to mention the corrosive effect on aluminum carburetors and 30 year old rubber found in the fuel system on these old bikes. I refer you back to those pics I posted of a 81 GS850 carbs which I think sat at least 6 years. What you don't see in those pics is that the rubber plugs over the pilot jets are soft, spongy and I tore them up removing them. You also can't tell but they have swollen to about twice the new size.

[olchris]

Wow, now i understand what you poor guys have to deal with. I never thought that fuel "storage" would have these issues...

My thought processes immediately takes me to fitting drains "interconnected" to all the fuel bowl and a tap/valve to drain them and also another on/off drain to the fuel tank ... What a PITA...

[salukispeed]

Its not really normally a problem. I believe More conversation and brainstorming. the stuff if not perfect and can have negative results over extended storage.

[robin1731]

Some people have more problems than others. Even with the same fuel.

Some have zero issues even with stuff that does set idle for more than a couple of months.

[gltriker]

Wow, now i understand what you poor guys have to deal with. I never thought that fuel "storage" would have these issues...

My thought processes immediately takes me to fitting drains "interconnected" to all the fuel bowl and a tap/valve to drain them and also another on/off drain to the fuel tank ... What a PITA...

Do you have E85 gasoline in Australia, olchris? Flex fuel vehicles?

2 1/2 years ago my trike sat unused with untreated fuel in its tank for about 5 weeks during the middle of summer. When I attempted to start it again, it was cranking over, but refused to run. I eventually found excessive fuel puddled in the plenum. Came to find out whatever that "fuel?"in the tank may have actually been, it trashed all the internal rubber components in all 4 carburetors, and the fuel petcock, too. When I drained the fuel tank and splashed a small amount of the liquid on my hands in the process, it surprisingly made the skin on the back of both hands uncomfortably sting from the contact. I'd never been adversely affected by gasoline contact with my skin before.
Perhaps, some E85 had been dispensed into my tank from the wrong storage tank at the gas station was my concern.
Will never know.....

[CYBORG]

I think the thing to remember is that, besides the ethanol, there are other stuff in the fuel depending on the time of year, and where you live. Winter fuel....and summer fuel. So different parts of the country, or world, will have different blends. Even at the same time of the year

[olchris]

Wow, now i understand what you poor guys have to deal with. I never thought that fuel "storage" would have these issues...

My thought processes immediately takes me to fitting drains "interconnected" to all the fuel bowl and a tap/valve to drain them and also another on/off drain to the fuel tank ... What a PITA...

Do you have E85 gasoline in Australia, olchris? Flex fuel vehicles?

2 1/2 years ago my trike sat unused with untreated fuel in its tank for about 5 weeks during the middle of summer. When I attempted to start it again, it was cranking over, but refused to run. I eventually found excessive fuel puddled in the plenum. Came to find out whatever that "fuel?"in the tank may have actually been, it trashed all the internal rubber components in all 4 carburetors, and the fuel petcock, too. When I drained the fuel tank and splashed a small amount of the liquid on my hands in the process, it surprisingly made the skin on the back of both hands uncomfortably sting from the contact. I'd never been adversely affected by gasoline contact with my skin before.
Perhaps, some E85 had been dispensed into my tank from the wrong storage tank at the gas station was my concern.

Will never know.....

No E85 here in Western Australia that i know off and i dont think available in Australia in the name... I think there some petrol outlets that use Ethonol on our East Coast but not sure...

In my bikes and "plant" equipment i usually buy the Premium fuel which is at 95 octane (lead free) rating which is reccomended for all these late model performance car... In my case for ease of starting but i DOOOO put a splash of lead additive into my 20 ltr Jerry cans..... I started both my Nortons up over Xmas that had been sitting for ~12months.. Drained the one mikuni carb and tanks on each bike then refilled with fresh fuel.. Started as expected with no hint of contaminations etc...

!2 months stored in a FULL container would be "expected" to still be usable (or at least i would use it if needed).. But who keeps fuel that long!!!

[mike in idaho]

We still have a source of ethanol-free gas in my town, I use it in everything that sits around in the off-season. Keep the tanks full, with some gas stabilizer or two-cycle oil added and everything is good to go later.

[scootsx2]

Come winter I top up my tanks and dose them with Stabil Marine and have never had a problem after the winter layup. On one occasion I neglected to put Stabil in my LX150 Vespa and come springtime it ran poorly until I refilled with fresh fuel and ran a bit of Lucas fuel system cleaner though it. Kool-Aid? No, but I will stick with what works for me.

[JSBail]

Come winter I top up my tanks and dose them with Stabil Marine and have never had a problem after the winter layup.

Same here except I use the regular Stabil and have never had a problem firing up my bikes or my lawnmowers for the first time in spring. The only difference this winter is that I've found a local gas station that sells ethanol free gas so everything is topped off with that instead of E10. I'm not making a pitch for Stabil either, I've read many other posts on other sites where it didn't matter what elixir or kool-aid they put in the tank they still claimed to have had issues and blamed it on the E10 in regards to winter storage. Why is it that some have issues and others don't I have no clue.

[mhynze]

These carbs sat for 2 + years with fuel in them outside, perfectly good now... i used little carb cleaner, only putting jets in, personally love pine sol... not sure about others?

theres quite a variance on fuel around the world and at different times of the year i would have to agree


Many problems with ethanol... but it can be quite a better fuel... if the system is deigned for it

[Rat]

In Ontario many brands of gas have ethanol in their standard gas and none in their premium .... so I splurge and fill the tank with premium and (marine) stabil before I wrap her up for the winter ...... so far so good .....

Gord (come on spring) Jones

[rcmatt007]

methanol is one carbon with an OH group (which makes it an alcohol) ethanol is two carbons with an OH, propanol would be three, and so forth. The carbon end does have an attraction to an oil based product (such as gasoline) and the OH likes water. In both methanol and ethanol, the OH has a much stronger affinity to water than the "C" group does to oil, so in the presence of moisture will settle out eventually
Interestingly, "HEAT", which is methanol, binds to water in your tank and allows that water to go through the system without plugging it up.

Isopropyl alcohol is interesting in that you take propane (and propane accessories) and attach the OH to the center carbon. Ethylene glycol (antifreeze) is two carbons with an OH on both ends.

In any case, drinking any of them except ethanol is not a good idea.

But I am like Rat, I splurge for premium without ethanol when the bike is going to sit.....

[mhynze]

In Ontario many brands of gas have ethanol in their standard gas and none in their premium .... so I splurge and fill the tank with premium and (marine) stabil before I wrap her up for the winter ...... so far so good .....

Gord (come on spring) Jones

Shell Yes, esso most likely depending on station, but im pretty sure petro is all ethanol mixed



theres some E85 pumps around me too....maybe i should get a single carb with ethanol kit for one of my wings...more power!