Oil consumption realities

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rcmatt007
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Re: Oil consumption realities

#16

Post by rcmatt007 »

my favorite pastime is to pour a little oil under a parked GL1800 :twisted:
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Re: Oil consumption realities

#17

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Many years ago someone pointed out a puddle under a friend's sidecar outfit as a possible oil leak. It was under the front of the sidecar so he didn't worry until he saw a similar puddle at the next stop. Turned out the cap had come off of the bottle of oil he kept behind the seat with the tools, a tool had punctured the seal and it was running under the floor mat (where his passenger didn't see it) and out a drain hole.
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Re: Oil consumption realities

#18

Post by mikenixon »

:)
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Re: Oil consumption realities

#19

Post by PDub »

Late to this topic but there is a show on TV called Engine Masters. They basically dyno test different engine ideas that are either controversial or thought to be common knowledge to determine what is actually true.

They recently went through a test of oil pans and picked up significant horsepower with just the change of the oil pan. This pan was specifically designed to allow the oil to get channeled away and reduce interference with the spinning crank. This reduced drag on the crank since it wasn't spinning in a cyclone of oil and therefore power increased. Oil pressure also improved due to less foaming action. They actually found power highest when the pan was a quart low! Obviously, they didn't recommend this for a street engine, but it does point to Mike's premise about oil vaporization.

Good read as always Mike. Thanks!
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Re: Oil consumption realities

#20

Post by mikenixon »

Speaking of unusual engines and particularly oil pans, when Kawasaki put a ZX1200 Ninja sportbike engine in their first four-stroke personal watercraft they of course didn't include the transmission so the crankcases are quite different. The crankcases wrap closely around the crankshaft, still in a wet sump design though, and special baffling and oil channeling is added so when the craft tips 90 degrees or even farther the oil pump won't starve for oil and when righting the craft there is no delay in lubrication. There is also a air/oil separator plumbed in. Interesting what engineers come up with. And since the basic engine is Ninja-derived comparisons are easy to make and the differences obvious and instructive. By the way, speaking of skimming the oil film off a spinning crankshaft, Honda was using crankshaft "windage trays" as early as the early 1960s twins. On the CB450 DOHC bikes the tray is part of the crankcase, permanently riveted in.
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Re: Oil consumption realities

#21

Post by gltriker »

PDub wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:45 pm Late to this topic but there is a show on TV called Engine Masters. They basically dyno test different engine ideas that are either controversial or thought to be common knowledge to determine what is actually true.

They recently went through a test of oil pans and picked up significant horsepower with just the change of the oil pan. This pan was specifically designed to allow the oil to get channeled away and reduce interference with the spinning crank. This reduced drag on the crank since it wasn't spinning in a cyclone of oil and therefore power increased. Oil pressure also improved due to less foaming action. They actually found power highest when the pan was a quart low! Obviously, they didn't recommend this for a street engine, but it does point to Mike's premise about oil vaporization.

Good read as always Mike. Thanks!
I have seen that same Engine Masters episode several times .
In fact, it will replay again at 8:30pm, tonight.
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Re: Oil consumption realities

#22

Post by Shadowjack »

The CB72/77 twins also have the windage trays in the sump, IIRC. Muscle-car era Pontiac performance engines have them as well from the factory. Probably others, but those I know.
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Re: Oil consumption realities

#23

Post by flyin900 »

Windage trays.....

Just helping a buddy with a 1968 CL175 Twin where we needed to spit the cases to replace a worn/damaged kick starter shaft assembly.
Since the motor was a last fall take apart project and then left for 3 months; this motor has two small windage trays on either side of the front section of the lower case. These were placed elsewhere during those three months, so we ended up reassembling the replaced kick assembly and rejoining the upper and lower cases.
Only when checking the parts fiche for a bolt washer confirmation did we discover the "windage trays" were shown on the fiche and we realized that they were missing from the lower case. :IDTS:
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Re: Oil consumption realities

#24

Post by 77Gowing »

The Teledyne Continental engine in the M60 tank and the Army's tank retriever, is 1790 cid and has what they call a dry sump. There is no vessel beneath the pick up tubes. I was told that this arrrangemnment would allow extreme angles on the engine. I can see where it would help on the specified 60% grades.

When it comes to oil trays...I'm completely....baffled!8 :lol:
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Re: Oil consumption realities

#25

Post by mikenixon »

:)
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Re: Oil consumption realities

#26

Post by mikenixon »

flyin900 wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:18 am Windage trays.....

Just helping a buddy with a 1968 CL175 Twin where we needed to spit the cases to replace a worn/damaged kick starter shaft assembly.
Since the motor was a last fall take apart project and then left for 3 months; this motor has two small windage trays on either side of the front section of the lower case. These were placed elsewhere during those three months, so we ended up reassembling the replaced kick assembly and rejoining the upper and lower cases.
Only when checking the parts fiche for a bolt washer confirmation did we discover the "windage trays" were shown on the fiche and we realized that they were missing from the lower case. :IDTS:
On the DOHC CB450 twin the trays have Phillips screws holding them in, plus rivets that have to be cut using a special tool. You can't really flush out all the sludge with them in place. But you can put the trays back in upside-down... :8)
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