The factory manual

[mikenixon]

When I was a dealer tech, there were a number of ways you could lose the respect of the other mechanics in the shop. Just *owning* a tube of silicone sealer was one. And there were several others. But one way that sticks in my mind is you never wanted to say the word "Clymer." Never. I have discovered, with the unbelievably widespread acceptance of this product, how impossible it is to communicate to most people how it was was and still is viewed in OEM shops. And how I still view it. Admitting any association with it was akin to someone finding out you had VD. And that is not an exageration. I'm not saying the factory manual is perfect. In fact, if the aftermarket books had at any time at least approached the OEM's magnificance, it wouldn't have had a chance. But it's never really been challenged. Despite its (rather dear) idiosyncrasies, the factory book is consistently excellent. And the Clymers and Chiltons and Haynes and the rest are so comparatively awful, what with their unabashed shooting-from-the-hip style. Really, they are.

As I say, the factory book is not without issues. Factory manuals often use engineering data in the place of service information (for example, fuel RON instead of PON), communicate overall electrical system current in place of charge current, and preach patently foolish and widely ridiculed resistance test matrices for voltage regulators, to name just a few shortcomings.

One very important reason for OEM service manuals not being what they should be is that starting at the end of the 1960s, manufacturers' books began to move away from being documents helpful to the *buyers* of the product to documents helpful to the *makers* of the product. Yup, corporations defending legal suits. Today that is their primary purpose, to be literary bulwarks against the increasing tide of litigation. For an education on this, get a look at a 1960s-era Honda manual. You feel like you could build your own motorcycle just reading it, it's so transparent, engaging and technically interesting. Amazing.

As of this writing, the last of the Big Four OEMs has finally put their service manuals online. Something in favor of pdf manuals and a thing many don't realize is that unlike their paper counterparts the electronic versions are updated whenever errors are discovered or other changes are needed. This might happen four or five times a year. This is a good thing, of course, and for this reason I used to train Kawasaki dealers to put more faith in the computer versions than in the paper manuals.

When a tech instructor, one of the things I had to deal with was a reluctance on the part of dealer staff to consistently use the factory manual. Some techs in some places tried to shame each other for using the book. As if they were above it all, too smart, too experienced. What they did not realize was it was just the opposite. They didn't know what they were really communicating was their immaturity and inexperience.

[pidjones]

I'll admit. I have a Clymer's GL1000 manual. Somewhere. Might take a day or two to find it. I also have a Honda FSM laying in the garage on the stack of boxes that I use to study it on - and have it for ready reference. Plus several choice pages of pdf printed out and ready to be used for specific tasks.

BTW, not all FSMs are that up-to-date. I submitted a re-write of one of the most basic, frequently performed tasks on my previous employer's machine. This was a rebuild of a critical component (think carb rebuild, and we did use ultrasonic cleaners and baked components) that had to be done just right. If done properly it was a task done about every-other week. If not, daily. Three or four hours work, hundreds of dollars in parts. I re-wrote the old procedure to correct a few errors, expand on the way to make some critical adjustments and measurements, but primarily to provide correct part numbers instead of the numbers used by the company before we were bought out ten years previously (yes - ten years). I submitted my re-write, and three years later it was still not published! The reason? Out of sloth, a girl hired by engineering had combined my document update with a major product release that eventually would never be released. I finally forced it to be removed from that ECN and released on its own. So, fourteen years after the part numbers changed a real useful document with current part numbers and corrected, improved (workflow greatly improved) procedure was finally released. For a multi-million dollar machine producing tens of thousands of dollars of product daily. Company politics, processes, and architecture can greatly enhance or destroy service products.

[flyday58]

FSM for both the CB and the GL have been invaluable, along with the carb manuals written by the thread author, but I see the litigation-protection side of things in BMW's manuals. They are definitely slanted toward the BMW tech working in a BMW facility. Your counterpart (IMO) in the BMW World pushes the Clymer manual versus BMW's for this very reason. My main problem with the Clymer is the way they lump several models together and don't go into enough detail for the model I seem to always have.
Anyway, in Honda World, the gospel according to Honda is the only way to go.

[mikenixon]

[mikenixon]

Although it can be hard to read at times, geared as it is to the professional, and subject to corporate politics and other influences, there is no replacement for the official manual. I consider it a bad mistake to favor a substitute.

[rcmatt007]

sitting on the main table in the room where we precept residents are my copies of the latest "Harrison's Principle's of Internal Medicine" (Dr. Fauci is one of the editors) and "Nelson's Pediatrics"

When I tell residents to look something up, I do not mean their phone app or wikipedia

[5speed]

I have a factory service manual for my 76, 82 and for my Camaro.

[mikenixon]

[5speed]

I scored the service manual for my camaro for $60.
Saw an advertisement at work for GM service manual's from a closed dealership..a local car club bought them to flip. I contacted the person and asked if they had one for an 86 Camaro which they did.
They go for $200+ on fleabay.

[mikenixon]

Kewell!

[Liam]

I have several Gl1000s, also GL1100s, GL1200s, 1500, Valkyrie and GL1800.
I have Honda manuals for all. I also have Clymer manuals for all. I also have Haynes. I live a pretty normal life. I do have some self worth issues, I always have had, and I suppose I always will. I do not however attribute these to ownership of a Haynes or clymer manual. I care little about being judged, and I know that for some, judging others makes them feel better about themselves. C'est la vie.

[Rat]

I have several Gl1000s, also GL1100s, GL1200s, 1500, Valkyrie and GL1800.
I have Honda manuals for all. I also have Clymer manuals for all. I also have Haynes. I live a pretty normal life. I do have some self worth issues, I always have had, and I suppose I always will. I do not however attribute these to ownership of a Haynes or clymer manual. I care little about being judged, and I know that for some, judging others makes them feel better about themselves. C'est la vie.

Wise words Liam

Gord

[Sidecar Bob]

I started out on Suzukis. Their FSMs are written for the use of factory trained mechanics/techs and are nearly impossible for a lay person to understand (I certainly couldn't, especially as a beginner). One of my mentors at the time is Honda factory trained but he recommended the Haynes for the Suzukis.

The FSMs for the Honda CX/GL500/650 models are particularly well written and easy to follow. Imagine, if you will, having everything you need to know to remove the engine's rear cover, from disassembly of the water pump and the ignition's pulse generators and timing advance through to removing the flywheel and servicing the starter clutch and then re-assembling everything all in one chapter!!!
I have become so spoiled by these excellent manuals that I almost never even take the Haynes or Clymer manual out of the drawer.
We have PDFs of the FSMs for the CX family available for download on the CX500Wiki and I regularly recommend them to people who are working on engines.

The factory manual for the GL1100, unfortunately, is not nearly as good. When I had my "new" 1100 engine apart a few years ago before installing it in the bike I found myself constantly flipping between chapters during re-assembly and asking on the forum about where to find the information. There were several items I never did find in the FSM (I have both a paper copy and the PDF that is available online) and I ended up referring to the Haynes quite a bit, simply because I could find the information I needed (would it have cost Honda that much to include an index at the back of the book?)
I would have a hard time recommending the FSM to someone inexperienced.

As of this writing, the last of the Big Four OEMs has finally put their service manuals online. Something in favor of pdf manuals and a thing many don't realize is that unlike their paper counterparts the electronic versions are updated whenever errors are discovered or other changes are needed. This might happen four or five times a year.

When I searched for Honda motorcycle service manuals I found a page on Honda's site but it only includes models from 2014 on. I guess those of us with older models are stuck with the older publications...

[Track T 2411]

IIRC, Helm publishing bought out the copyrights to Honda's older service manuals. There was a big todo several years ago about websites like ours posting links to download files of many older manuals. Helm's website offers both print and digital copies of FSM's. Private 'sharing' is legal, but selling or providing 'free' copies is not. Just saying...

[mikenixon]

I am not familiar with what Honda is doing, but I think Yamaha was the first of the Big Four to put their service manuals online for their dealers (not their customers). Dealers access them along with tons of other stuff such as VIN records and warranty claim online processing through the official (and restricted) dealer-to-manufacturer web portal, what the industry calls a DCS, dealer communication system. Kawasaki had pdf manuals for many years but they were available only to internal corporate users. However, many of these leaked out over the years. The dealers kept bugging Kawasaki to do as all the other three OEMs had done, and finally Kawasaki gave in a year or two ago. For the dealers, again, not for customers.