Testing the 1000, 1100, 1200 charging system

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Testing the 1000, 1100, 1200 charging system

#1

Post by mikenixon »

Four Cylinder Goldwing Charging Part 1
This subject has probably been beat to death. So consider this a fresh, alternate view. Not a purposely contrarian one but one different from most. I maintain it is one that is more common among professional motorcycle mechanics than any other that has been published.

First, few pro techs use volt meters to measure charge. Attempting to measure charging with a voltmeter is not best practice but lazy practice not worthy of the term "troubleshooting". It is also at odds with electrical theory. Think about it. When an individual measures electricity *leaving* the battery (discharge, loads), it is always done in amps. For example when one is determining the load taken by an accessory such as a set of driving lights. Accepted standard practice no one argues with. Why then all of a sudden should you switch to using *volts* when measuring electrical energy going the other way, *into* the battery? It's inconsistent and not at all logical. Charging's two sides, charge and discharge, two sides of the same coin, should be measured the same way. It's the same activity, just different directions.

Technically, voltage is a static state, a condition of "strain" engineers like to call by the wonderful name, "potential.". Voltage is not power and not flow. Mechanic's training schools like to call voltage "electrical pressure," and that is a pretty good definition. Another analogy a bit closer to reality is "head" as in hydraulics. Any way you look at it, voltage is strain, difference, a comparison between two points. (This is true even inside the battery, whose terminals are actually one of accumulated charge and the other having no charge, hence a strain or "voltage" is present illustrating nature's desire to equalize.) Voltage is the result of charge, not charge itself. The battery's voltage is the end result of its receiving charge, it is not itself that charge. That charge is amps. Current. (And what does "currrent" mean but flow, movement?) So which should be measured, the firsthand activity itself or the secondhand result of the activity?

Furthermore, when measuring volts at the battery, and the throttle is winged up to visualize a change, that difference is necessarily so slight it is difficult in many cases to detect accurately. If your battery starts out with 13.5 volts and you wing the throttle and get 14.2, is this charge? This increase of less than a volt? Is it? And is it enough? On the other hand, when using amps, the meter will show a difference of some 4 to 8 amps, depending on the bike's loads and the battery's state of charge. Which is easier to read and interpret? See Part 2 for more.
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Testing the 1000, 1100, 1200 charging system, Part 2

#2

Post by mikenixon »

Four Cylinder Goldwing Charging Part 2
There are two major splits in motorcycle charging system types, i.e. permanent magnet and electromagnet. (There are then several versions within each type, i.e. 3-phase, single-phase, half-phase, mechanically regulated, electronically regulated, etc..) The four-cylinder Wing has the former, permanent magnet, whereas the six cylinder Wings use an integral automotive style alternator that is electromagnet in design. This permanent vs. electromagnet magnet type split is of much more importance than most people know. The type of magnet the alternator has deterimines everything about it -- from its charging curve to its regulator type to its troubleshooting methods. The fact is, the permanent magnet system presents an interesting difficulty when it comes to measuring charge. Its chargng curve is so abrupt that its regulator can often be active even at idle, since in neutral there is no engine load and very little electrical load, with the result a rapidly charged battery, right off idle, confusing the mechanic's output test because often the regulator almost immediately begins limiting charge and unduly affecting the test measurement. This confuses first semester mechanic students, and most everyone else. For this reason a special technique is employed by pro techs which delays the regulator's activation. It consists merely of loading down the battery during the test with a load resistor. The output result is then realistic, without the regulator's artificial and untimely interference.

Much is made in the official service manual about resistance tests, but the truth is resistance tests of any kind around motorcycle electrical equipment is not best practice. Seriously. They're akin to voodoo. Such tests are highly subject to temperature differences, owe far too much to the use of proprietary (factory specified) test meters, and are very deceptive due to the nature of coil windings and their typical failure modes. No pro tech uses an ohmmeter during charging system troubleshooting. Not on the alternator stator, not on the recitifer, and not on the regulator. A resistance test is a static test that assumes that the condition of the test approximates the part's operating condition, and this is just not a valid assumption. It frustrates electrical engineers to hear this, but it is the nature of essentially disposable motorcycle electronics, not the spage-age stuff they are likely used to working with. The stator, rectifier, and regulator can and should be tested in operation, what is called dynamically, not statically. This is very easily done, and is the only correct way because it eliminates the assumption factors. For example, ohmming a stator might show good results. But once loaded electrically and warmed by the engine, coils of wire tend to act differently, and any breaks in insulation not apparent with a resistance test now come into play. Even just reading voltage output from a stator is bad practice, for the same reason. You have brought in the temperature piece but the load piece is still missing. Knowledgeable techs load the stator with a test resistor, which simulates the load of the vehicle's electrical system. Why not simply read stator votlage with the stator still plugged into the motorcycle? Isn't that the same thing? No, because faults in the wiring or in other electrical components can "color" the stator's performance. The only right way is to separate the stator from the bike and load it down separately.

Not counting the well-known 70-80s Honda connector malady, alternator stator trouble in motorcycle charging systems is not as common as many think, and certainly not as common as it would appear looking at most of the suggested troubleshooting methods, which ascribe to the atator an importance out of proportion to reality. In a pro's troubleshooting methodology, the stator is tested holistically, as part of the system, usually eliminating the need to test it separately, and when a separate test is needed, it is the last thing tested, not the first as in so many methods. See Part 3 for more.
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Testing the 1000, 1100, 1200 charging system, Part 3

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Post by mikenixon »

Four Cylinder Goldwing Charging Part 3
Methodology in fact is the thing most lacking in not only third party help but in the factory's own literature, surprisingly enough. It may seem strange, and it does still to me, even after 40+ years, but this is intentional on the OEMs' part, as fantastic as that sounds. The reason is involved, but the short answer is manufacturers in our present litiguous society have for decades now viewed, and thus crafted, their service and owner's manuals into courtroom documents, nothing more and nothing less. Consequently they read as liability avoidance scripts and have little relevance to actual day-to-day maintenance of the vehicle. True.

Here's the rundown. First, we'll start with the methodology. It is so simple, it can be describe in just three steps

STEP 1
Battery charge and load test. You can use a conventional battery load tester but a better and cheaper way is to use a 2 ohm, 100 watt sliding contact (Ohmmite) power resistor adjusted to 1/3 range. This is available from Mouser Electronics and it is also the best tool with which to dynamically test stators, if needed. Don't skip this test.
STEP 2
Battery charge rate in amps. Meter set for 10+ amps intercepting the battery negative terminal. Let the engine warm up, then rapidly and smoothly rev to 5,000 and do not hold it there but let go. Before letting go, note the meter, You're looking for a minimum of 1/4 the battery's a/h rating at 5,000 rpm. If low or confusing, repeat with the battery loaded using your Ohmmite. If still low, disconnect the regulator and retest charge, with the proviso that this time the rpm be kept below 2,500 (the regulator is disconnected on a 1000 by simply unplugging it; on an 1100 or 1200, it's by extracting the black wire from the connector block). You want to minimize the rpm because your headlight and other goodies can be overtaxed easily with no regulator on board. If now over the minimum, the regulator is at fault (whether separate as on the 1000 or the combination reg/rect on the 1100).
STEP 3
If still below the minimum, jumper wire the disconnected stator to the Ohmmite at the extreme contacts (full resistance) and measure AC volts at 5,000 rpm, three times (three sets of two) looking for a minimum of 25 VAC, as well as a consistently between the three readings of 10-15%. If you get this minimum VAC, the rectifier is bad; if the result is below the minimum, the stator is bad, obviously. See Part 4 for more.
Last edited by mikenixon on Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Testing the 1000, 1100, 1200 charging system, Part 4

#4

Post by mikenixon »

Four Cylinder Goldwing Charging Part 4
Now for some details. Charging and load testing the battery is vital and not to be overlooked. It doesn't matter if the battery is one day old, it doesn't matter if your brother-in-law said it is good, it doesn't matter if you paid $100 for it. None of that matters. Test it anyway, or forget the whole thing. Really. Next, note that nowhere in this methodology is an ohmmeter called for. However, the rectifier and regulator are indeed tested. How? Dynamically, as they should be, not statically as so many manuals insist, including the factory's. The stator test, if you get that far, is also dynamic, not static. Not only are static tests too inconclusive, they are a waste of time as those components are more easily tested (as well as more conclusively) dynamically.

I said, "if you get that far." Note the progression. In a true methodology, you don't do every test possible. You don't, as the manual has you do, do every trick in your test arsenal just because you can, not knowing why you're doing them. Call that whatever you like but it's not troubleshooting. Instead, you go down the test logic tree until you hit on the problem. Logic. Yeah, that thing that went out of vogue around 1950 or so. (Along with common sense). If you get output at the battery, why test anything else? If there is a problem and you need to go deeper, why test the regulator if "downstream" from it is insufficient electricity but "upsteam" it is plenty? You have just tested it, and it's bad. Make sense? It's simply logic.

On the subject of alternator connector melting, much has been made of this but the actual cause is something Honda and others have done to all their bikes from nearly the beginning, but which started to catch up with them as system loads and outputs went up, and before the advent of the rubber sealed connectors that would later prevent the problem on modern bikes. The problem is the crimping. It builds up resistance over time and with constant exposure to the atmosphere and elements. This resistance produces heat (acting like a headlight filiment) and soon it is too much for the cheap plastic connector blocks. More than just the Wings had this problem, many other Honda models (SOHC, DOHC fours, V4s, etc), and also many other brands of bikes. The fix and preventative is to individually remove each spade male and female terminal from inside both halves of the connector and clean, recrimp and then carefully solder the terminals onto their wires (not to each other!). When assembling the connector, use grease, any kind but preferably dialectric. By the way, the factory Honda kit for repairing its alternator connectors, probably no longer available, included wire and connectors and solder, though the solder was intended for the wires, not for the terminals. Do the terminals anyway. The connector will never melt again. See Part 5 for the conclusion.
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Testing the 1000, 1100, 1200 charging system, Part 5

#5

Post by mikenixon »

Four Cylinder Gldwing Charging Part 5
For those who like the behind the scenes stuff, the regulator on the Goldwing is an interesting thing. Since the alternator's magnets are permanent magnet type the regulator can't, as it does on 1500s and 1800s, and all of today's cars, modulate those bikes' (electro) magnets as a means of controlling charge. So it does the only thing it can do, it shorts the stator in little bites, in rapid-fire steps, to effect charge control. That's right, the stator is actually shunted to itself, in steps, then unshunted, in steps, as the battery's charge state goes, respectively, too high or too low. Though always a shunting type, the four cylinder's regulator actually went though a couple revisions during the four cylinder Wing's production, and today similar regulators used in modern bikes are even more highly developed. The earliest examples such the as GL1000's were virtually on/off switches, which understandably caused significant electrical backlash. You could pick this up in some cases on your AM radio back in the day as faint popping in the audio. Honda even had an alternator filter bulletin issued because of it. Later, the regulator was made more progressive in its tapering up and down function (through added transistors), and so less electrical interference was produced. Today's shunting regulators such as that on all the sport bikes actually are microprocessor driven so they can pick up on the electrical wave's negative wave root and thus no electrical backlash is created which would be harmful to all the sensitive 2-5 volt electronics on modern bikes. That is, the regulator waits to shunt until the stator's AC sine wave is at its lowest. This technology (FET regulation, and even later, "zero cross" regulation) wasn't available until fairly recently.

The four cylinder Wing charging system is pretty simple, robust, and relataively problem-free. At something under 300 watts output it really isn't designed for a couple hundred pounds of added lights and radios, and this of course means this can have bad effects on the system. But overall it works well.
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Re: Testing the 1000, 1100, 1200 charging system, Part 5

#6

Post by pierce »

Somebody needs to put all these in one thread. It would be much easier to read.
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Re: Testing the 1000, 1100, 1200 charging system, Part 5

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Post by mikenixon »

Sorry, I assumed the site would not accept it as one piece. I or Whiskerfish can consolidate it if necessary.
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Re: Testing the 1000, 1100, 1200 charging system, Part 4

#8

Post by bladredhead »

lots of information in these, thanks for posting!

can they be mreged into a single thread? over time, as individuals, they'll get lost (though i suspect this will end up in shop talk post haste)
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Re: Testing the 1000, 1100, 1200 charging system, Part 5

#9

Post by bladredhead »

any reason a modern MOSFET reg/rec couldn't or shouldn't be retrofitted to an early GL mike?
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Re: Testing the 1000, 1100, 1200 charging system, Part 1

#10

Post by sunnbobb »

Merged.
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Re: Testing the 1000, 1100, 1200 charging system, Part 1

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Post by Recycled Roadkill »

OMG, I read it all..... And now my head hurts. Thanks for the posting tho.
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Re: Testing the 1000, 1100, 1200 charging system, Part 1

#12

Post by IndianaJohn »

Excellent treatise on the subject! Just goes to prove how valuable an addition to the site that you are, Mike. This should certainly be in Shoptalk!
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Re: Testing the 1000, 1100, 1200 charging system, Part 5

#13

Post by mikenixon »

bladredhead wrote:any reason a modern MOSFET reg/rec couldn't or shouldn't be retrofitted to an early GL mike?
None whatever, in fact I referred to these in the article as FET (field effect transistor), which is what Kawasaki calls them, and which they use on the ZX14 and a couple other models. I know next to nothing firsthand about the aftermarkey sources for FET reg/rects, sorry, though like everyone I note they are being talked about all over and seemingly well documented. :) You need to keep in mind a couple things whenever converting a regulator meant for one machine to another. First, swap downward. That is, compare the wattage of the charging system of the host bike to the recipient bike, and make sure the host machine is more robust. That's very easy to do on the Wing, as it is pretty low powered. Second, if crossing brands in your swap, you will need to carefully work out color codes, as no two motorcycle manufacturers use the same codes. You will have at minimum six colors to identify: the wires for the regulator's primary functional connection to the stator and to ground, the three wires for the stator input and the power wire to the battery since the regulator is also a rectifier in the same housing these days, and ideally a seventh, the wire to the battery. This last is the most difficult, as many FET regulators do not have the battery sensing wire exposed. If I were doing this I would want to choose a regulator that retains an exposed battery sensing wire. Unfortunately, because FET regulators are found mostly on fuel injected bikes having delicate electronics onboard, the days of exposed battery sensing wires that can be temporarily removed for dynamic regulator testing in the event of an alternator fault, are quickly disappearing. This is because it is possible during the testing to over-volt fuel injection and other engine-managment electronics. So, short answer, yes. :). All assuming we are talking permanent magnet regulators only. The Honda VFR guys are hot on this stuff because the factory regulator/rectifier failed often. I remember that from being a service manager at a Powerhouse Honda dealership in those days.
Last edited by mikenixon on Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:45 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Testing the 1000, 1100, 1200 charging system, Part 1

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Post by mikenixon »

sunnbobb wrote:Merged.
Thanks, sunnbobb!
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Re: Testing the 1000, 1100, 1200 charging system, Part 1

#15

Post by mikenixon »

If you own a GL1000 you have noticed some seemingly peculiar things. The rectifier is near the battery, and the regulator is under the left shelter cover. This is because back in the 70s this was Honda's (and most other manufacturers') way. Even Honda's cars, which by way gave the first Wing its charging system as well as its carburetor design, had two piece reg/rects and in fact had the very same system, permanent magnet, as does the GL1000. The next thing you'll notice is that the rectifier is heavily finned (and gets hot even at an engine idle) while the regulator has virtually no fins by comparison. The reason is the job the regulator does doesn't require heat dissipation, whereas the rectifier is one hot running son of a gun! It's because diodes, the working parts in the rectifier, are quite wasteful in the configuration they are arranged in to create a 3-phase AC to DC converter. Think of it. As much as 100 volts AC is fed into them, and less than 17 volts DC emerges. Highly resistive, so much so that their conversion job is fairly wasteful (and when the traditional analog meter gave way to modern digital meters operating on much less internal voltage, a new way of testing diodes had to be developed). That resistance creates heat. So yes, it is normal for the rectifier to get very hot. That's why all the finning. :)
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