Another GL1100 Megasquirt EFI project

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thesteve
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Re: Another GL1100 Megasquirt EFI project

#16

Post by thesteve »

I'm actually leaving the timing to the factory parts. My pulse generator is actually in good shape, even the vacuum advance works. Once it dies I'll probably have the megasquirt control timing as well. For now there isn't much point since the bike is stock.
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wingrider
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Re: Another GL1100 Megasquirt EFI project

#17

Post by wingrider »

Good deal! If you don't mind me asking, where did you get the Megasquirt? Was it a complete deal, or did you do a kit? Trying to decide what the best option is for me, being I consider wiring my weakness. :-D

Also curious as to your O2 sensor placement. Any reason you didn't put it in the crossover pipe? Or, doesn't the MS care about side to side?
2002 1800 Wing
2001 Valkyrie Interstate
1978 1200 EFI Wing with Motorvation Coupe Royale sidecar
1977 1200 Wing cafe/bobber project
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thesteve
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Re: Another GL1100 Megasquirt EFI project

#18

Post by thesteve »

I bought it from diyautotune.com as a kit and assembled it myself. It's not too bad of a job, but some of the components on the 3.0 board are pretty close together so it can be tricky to solder a few of them without bridging the leads. I think I paid about $270 for it. Complete assembled units are available for a bit more.

I was considering the H pipe but wasn't sure if there would be enough flow in that section for fast reaction times. Putting it on the one side does make the assumption that both banks are running evenly, but for this it should be close enough to not cause any issues.
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wingrider
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Re: Another GL1100 Megasquirt EFI project

#19

Post by wingrider »

Thank you much for the info! I am still learning, steep curve for me! :)

I wondered if that was the reason for just the one side. Provided the engine is solid, it shouldn't be any different.
2002 1800 Wing
2001 Valkyrie Interstate
1978 1200 EFI Wing with Motorvation Coupe Royale sidecar
1977 1200 Wing cafe/bobber project
1974 Suzuki GT550
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irishcarbomb
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Re: Another GL1100 Megasquirt EFI project

#20

Post by irishcarbomb »

Nice work, having the O2 on both sides really only allows for monitoring of the other bank. The way the injectors are wired(and firing order of the bike), you wouldn't be able to tune the sides separately.

If you need a good base VE table, I think socrace posted one in his thread. Pretty sure I deleted my non turbo map.
1983 GL1100 Fuel Injected Turbo Build Thread
thesteve
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Re: Another GL1100 Megasquirt EFI project

#21

Post by thesteve »

Thanks, I figured having only one side be monitored would be better than having the sensor outside of the flow. I'd rather have the quicker reaction times. I'm trying to remember how I wired the injectors. I think I wired them in firing pairs with the coils instead of left side/right side. So you're right, they aren't really adjustable between banks the way I have it set up. I'm not too worried about it.

I've got the VE table pretty well dialed in at this point. Still a bit of work to do, but the new ITB mode in Megasquirt makes it way easier than Alpha N tuning.
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Re: Another GL1100 Megasquirt EFI project

#22

Post by thesteve »

Video coming soon. It's uploading to Youtube right now. They usually take some time to process it, but I'll post the link as soon as it's viewable.
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Re: Another GL1100 Megasquirt EFI project

#23

Post by thesteve »



Here we go. It may take a few more minutes for Youtube to make it available in HD so that you can read what's on the laptop display. It's my first narrated video and I didn't really have any talking points planned out, so go easy on me.
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Re: Another GL1100 Megasquirt EFI project

#24

Post by thesteve »

Watching the video, I mention the connector for the injectors. That's actually not a standard MS thing. Normally the injectors go right to the DB37 connector. Since the GL1200 injectors are low impedance, I chose to use a special injector driver board to handle them. Normally, with Low-Z injectors, you'd use PWM current limiting build into the Megasquirt to drive them. I was having electrical noise issues on the car that this MS was originally installed in, so I bought the JBPerf injector driver board. This is nice because it uses current detection to automatically clamp down the voltage on the injectors with no tuning required.

Board is available here: http://jbperf.com/p&h_board/index.html

You'll also see in the video that the EGO Correction gauge is locked at 100%. I have EGO correction disabled below 1200 RPM, so it doesn't cause a wandering idle.
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Re: Another GL1100 Megasquirt EFI project

#25

Post by wingrider »

Wow! Way above my head, but great job explaining things!
2002 1800 Wing
2001 Valkyrie Interstate
1978 1200 EFI Wing with Motorvation Coupe Royale sidecar
1977 1200 Wing cafe/bobber project
1974 Suzuki GT550
thesteve
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Re: Another GL1100 Megasquirt EFI project

#26

Post by thesteve »

wingrider wrote:One other thing, how Are you controlling the timing? Through the pulse gen, or another way?
I'm actually letting the factory Honda electronics handle the timing for now. I'm not doing any forced induction mods or anything crazy enough that I'd benefit from adjustable timing.

If I decide to control the timing in the future, I'd have to change some things. With a fuel only install, the Megasquirt is not firing the coils itself. That means they work as a quick and easy tach signal. If the Megasquirt is firing the coils, it would then be trying to measure against itself if the tach signal was being read from there.

Instead, what you would need to do is set up a sensor on the crank directly. This could mean fitting a trigger wheel to the front of the crank or watching the signal from the VR sensor (pulse generator) directly and base your ignition timing on that. Personally, I'd lock the vacuum and RPM advance on the pulse generator and use that.
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Re: Another GL1100 Megasquirt EFI project

#27

Post by thesteve »

I just found this in the manuals for the Megasquirt system: http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/MS2 ... 4-153.html

The factory pulse generator of the Goldwings (single tooth, dual pickup) is supported by the MS Devs! That means full spark control couldn't be easier to do. Lock the advances out so the top-dead-center to trigger angle never changes, and let the Megasquirt handle all of your timing adjustments. I might switch over to this in the future; might be able to squeeze a bit more power by cranking the timing a bit.
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Re: Another GL1100 Megasquirt EFI project

#28

Post by thesteve »

Someone asked a good question via PM about the special injector driver board I'm running. It's worth posting the answer for everyone to see, since these bikes do use low impedance injectors.

The question was: "Is that injector driver board actually needed?"

Here's some more info on why that extra board for the injectors exists: http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/MS2 ... .4-52.html

Long story short: no, you don't actually need it.

So there are two classes of injectors, high and low impedance. For the sake of discussion impedance can be considered resistance. High impedance injectors are about 12-14 ohms, low impedance are usually less than 3 ohms.

High impedance injectors pull about 1 amp at 12 volts and can be driven at that level with no issues.

Low impedance injectors pull over 4 amps at 12 volts. They snap open very quickly, but will burn out if held at 12 volts. These are sometimes desired because they can open faster than high impedance injectors, but they're more complicated to drive.

There are a few ways to fix this, listed in order from least advanced to most:

1. Injector resistors. These are simply high wattage resistors which bring the total resistance up to 12-14 ohms allowing them to be driven identically to high impedance injectors. You lose the bonus to opening time, but it works just fine. Some cars actually use this method from the factory.

2. Megasquirt's built in PWM drivers. PWM is Pulse Width Modulation, or a fancy term for switching things on and off very quickly. So quickly that a 12 volt signal can look like 3 or 4 volts. The MS will snap the injectors open at 12 volts, then lower the voltage to 3-4 volts to hold them open without burning them out. Works well, but sometimes can create electrical noise. You also have to tune these times, though it doesn't have to be exact.

3. The "peak and hold" board which I have. This is using special chips which are designed to measure current draw and react accordingly. Basically, they're able to tell when the injectors are fully open and clamp the voltage at that time. It's neat because it's self adjusting and it's not reliant on PWM. My megasquirt doesn't need to know if the injectors are high or low impedance, and I don't need to tune PWM settings.

I went with #3 because the previous car I ran this Megasquirt in was seeing strange electrical noise issues when running option #2. There are benefits to opening time as well, but for the most part they're not worth worrying about for the extra $60ish it'd cost. I'd go with #2 myself if I didn't already have the board. If for some reason #2 gives you issues, fall back to #1.
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irishcarbomb
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Re: Another GL1100 Megasquirt EFI project

#29

Post by irishcarbomb »

you can also find injectors that are the same design and are high impedance...i'm using a set from a ford probe GT, though they flow quite a bit more for the turbo. my microsquirt would only support 2 low or 4 high injectors.

scroll down the page to the denso top feed list, and anything that starts with 195500 will fit. on that page when you click on a model it shows a picture with flow info and resistance. http://www.witchhunter.com/injectordata1.php
1983 GL1100 Fuel Injected Turbo Build Thread
socrace
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Re: Another GL1100 Megasquirt EFI project

#30

Post by socrace »

Nice job with the efi conversion, and a great write up as well!
Your idea of drilling a hole in the thermostat to improve coolant temp readings looks good. Probably improves cooling as well, but did you see any issues with longer warm-up?
Concerning ignition control, there is a problem with using stock pulse generators for tach signal. The vr input chip used by microsquirt (and maybe some versions of megasquirt) can't read the pulse signal unless rpm is over about 800. Close, but too fast for the Honda starter.
1981 Goldwing Standard - efi'd, other stuff
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