JENVEY TF 40mm Twin Throttle Bodies "Alberta Super Clipper"

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Re: JENVEY TF 40mm Twin Throttle Bodies "Alberta Super Clipp

#226

Post by robin1731 »

Oldewing wrote:It does get loud in your shop from time to time...... :crosso :crosso :crosso



Winston's race bike was a little ..............

yeah, but mine might be a little louder. Put it on the two step and I guarantee it would be louder. ;)
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
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Re: JENVEY TF 40mm Twin Throttle Bodies "Alberta Super Clipp

#227

Post by Casper »

I found a bit of a hitch in using a dual O2 system, on my build. The Edelbrock does indeed handle one or two, but the SDS is set up for one O2 input only. :-? If you use two O2 sensors on the Edelbrock, it sends out two separate signals, on two separate wires. The SDS is a batch fire system, so it really only needs the one O2 signal, as it of course changes all Injector timing at the same time. As far as I see it does not necessarily preclude me from using the Harley, or any other, 'dual' muffs. I would either have to put in a custom cross over pipe, or run the O2 on one side only. That got me thinking about monitoring the health/action of each injector/cylinder. In the aircraft piston engine world, we do that by monitoring the EGT and CHT of each individual cylinder. Being a water cooled engine the CHT would not react really quicky to a sudden change in any individual injector fault, but the EGT would. But also the seat of your pants should pick it quicky too by a rough engine, or a power loss? I found a small EGT system that I could use, fully separate from the SDS EFI, to keep track of each EGT. I suspect all of the aircraft installs of the SDS uses such systems, as a back up means to monitor the engine. Link below.

http://thesensorconnection.com/gauges-p ... eter-gauge

Thoughts and/or ideas.

Cheers,
1976 LTD, Being Returned to Stock
Standard 1976 GL1000 Being Morphed into the Alberta Super Clipper
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Re: JENVEY TF 40mm Twin Throttle Bodies "Alberta Super Clipp

#228

Post by silverbullit »

Hey ,dig the project :

I'm taking a low tech. approach to making a blown Wing.

Roots type sc12 from Toyota,some things in common the crank drive pulley I need will be pretty much identical,

so will be following progress on that.

The inter-cooling is of particular interest and very informative,and found the math to be revealing as the

figures show that the drive pulley could be a few mm. larger than i had first calculated.

I am also planning to start with the stock '77 exhaust,so will be following to see the pressures generated when

boost gets to max. Some of the tuning info will be helpful tho boost curve will be completely different.

When at full boost high RPM,using your air charge temp.max boost total advance and fuel ratio should net

a similar peak H.P.

The expected H.P. figures are higher than most give from their finished product. I do agree there

is a lot more potential than anyone has been able to reliably extract.

You are headed in the right direction. One question: is there a Knock Sensor circuit in the E.C.U. ?

I am working on the packaging an air-to-air after cooler and plenum,I work a little differently than you not much

of an artist so work from a drawing in my head.

Make my own parts and side by side with welder to get the desired results.

In the end it all comes down to the same applied physics to get the end result.

Mine will be more primitive and don't expect as much Max H.P. ,but expect similar overall performance

due to H.P. under the curve created by a roots type Supercharger.

Good work. :2thumbs :popcornx2
What I say is based on Google and Yrs.of
experience, in the stream of time not even a
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Herd:1979 Cx500C,1979 Cx500S,1982 Gl500I,1982? Suzuki GL650G SDG 50 1977 GL1000
The Departed:Schwinn w/3.5 Briggs
1948 Salisbury scooter (9hp Wisconsin power)
1947 Harley Knucklehead
1968 Honda S90,
1970 BSA Thunderbolt,
1979 CX500D Dresser aka.The Slug(Guess why)
1978 GL1000(showroom bike Supulveda Honda last '78 in stock)
asked for best deal $950,slug got left in the dust.........as usual.
1978 Z w/ big bore kit.(long story)
2001 Suzi Bandit 1200S,great bike
About 30 or 40 others.
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Re: JENVEY TF 40mm Twin Throttle Bodies "Alberta Super Clipp

#229

Post by Casper »

There is an AntiKnock input into the SDS ECU. But it will not help in my case as I am using the ECU for EFI work only. The Ingnition is a stand alone C5 unit. One thing nice with the C5, is you can fully customize the advance curve, and have different curves at the flick of a switch, so one could manually retard the timing at any time. One could also do the old school antiknock technique of running leaded gas, did I just say that old loud? ;)
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Standard 1976 GL1000 Being Morphed into the Alberta Super Clipper
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Re: JENVEY TF 40mm Twin Throttle Bodies "Alberta Super Clipp

#230

Post by silverbullit »

:2thumbs I've heard of the c5 sounds like a superior unit.

Have to look into it and see what all I'm going to need to install and cost.

Right now I'm doing all maintenance and repairs done,then ride it a few thou.to get the bugs worked out.

Only had it for a few weeks runs nice and have gone up the street and back a couple times.

In the meantime collecting parts have the sc12 now,working on getting an after-cooler and plenum built.

Seems pretty straight forward to me,I'm hoping my little Bro has a good carb.he's a old time VW fanatic.

He has been doing them for 35yrs.so he will hook me up .

Hoping you stay way ahead of me so I can pick your brain and borrow some data. :2cool
What I say is based on Google and Yrs.of
experience, in the stream of time not even a
blink......So take anything I say as merely inconsequential babble.


Herd:1979 Cx500C,1979 Cx500S,1982 Gl500I,1982? Suzuki GL650G SDG 50 1977 GL1000
The Departed:Schwinn w/3.5 Briggs
1948 Salisbury scooter (9hp Wisconsin power)
1947 Harley Knucklehead
1968 Honda S90,
1970 BSA Thunderbolt,
1979 CX500D Dresser aka.The Slug(Guess why)
1978 GL1000(showroom bike Supulveda Honda last '78 in stock)
asked for best deal $950,slug got left in the dust.........as usual.
1978 Z w/ big bore kit.(long story)
2001 Suzi Bandit 1200S,great bike
About 30 or 40 others.
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Re: JENVEY TF 40mm Twin Throttle Bodies "Alberta Super Clipp

#231

Post by Casper »

An actual Work Done update from Casper :shock:

The machine shop is slooooooooow, so no crank-pulley setup just yet, I am really hoping for this week, they have promised, but only time will tell. The same shop is doing the welding of the first stage of the S/C output plumbing, so that is also late. What else is new? They do very good work, so a wait is not a really bad thing.

But I have been able to do some work on the fuel distribution system. I am using all Braided Stainless lines, and AN4 fittings. It is a 'constant flow' system so a pressure feed and then a return line back to the tank. The fuel pump is a high pressure Walbro in-tank unit and the regulator (0 - 5 Bar) is from JENVEY, the folks who make the actual TF twin throttle bodies. The fuel filter is a high flow 10 micron, rated at 15 GPM ( I think that should cover a low boost 1000cc engine ;) ), aviation unit, used by the experimental aircraft crowd. The fuel pressure will be set a nominal 43 PSI. I had to slightly modify the JENVEY supplied fuel-rails so as to be able to use AN4 fittings, they came with barbed style fitting and clamps, I like the looks, and the security, of good quality AN fittings. The mounting plate for the top of the engine has been fully designed, and drawn up, and I just need to get it off to the fabrication shop to be made, so I can mount some of the fuel and manifold pressure distribution parts. It will be made from a sheet of .250" thick aluminum. I had to up its size to fit everything and allow for proper routing of all the Stainless lines.

I also had the mount plate for the SpeedHut 4-1/2" Tach/Speedo made and I fitted it to the bike. Not fully sure but I think I will PC it black to match the actual SpeedHut unit. The multi-colour wiring you see coming from the bottom of the unit will be covered by a black sleeve.

On a somewhat off topic, I am leaning towards a Black/Chrome color scheme for the bike. But that can change as often as I change my underwear, which is daily. That might be a lot more information than you all need,.....sorry.

The new Rectifier/Regulator will be mounted inside the L/H shelter, photo to follow. It will be mounted on a .250" aluminium plate to provide a bit of a heat sink. The side shelter will be modified to allow for some cross airflow to aid it cooling the unit.

Cheers,
Attachments
R/H Fuel Distribution Lines
R/H Fuel Distribution Lines
IMG_0352.JPG (76.6 KiB) Viewed 615 times
Other side view showing the inside of the JENVEY TFs
Other side view showing the inside of the JENVEY TFs
IMG_0351.JPG (66.2 KiB) Viewed 615 times
SpeedHut Tack/Speedo, Ya I know I need to take out the garbage
SpeedHut Tack/Speedo, Ya I know I need to take out the garbage
IMG_0347.JPG (72.63 KiB) Viewed 615 times
Side View of Tach/Speedo, see I did take the garbage out at lunch time.
Side View of Tach/Speedo, see I did take the garbage out at lunch time.
IMG_0349.JPG (69.11 KiB) Viewed 615 times
Front on view of Tach/Speedo
Front on view of Tach/Speedo
IMG_0348.JPG (66.65 KiB) Viewed 615 times
1976 LTD, Being Returned to Stock
Standard 1976 GL1000 Being Morphed into the Alberta Super Clipper
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Re: JENVEY TF 40mm Twin Throttle Bodies "Alberta Super Clipp

#232

Post by gregforesi »

Thank you Casper. I've been wondering how our bike has been coming, and it's good to know that there is progress.
Black and chrome sounds good to me. I'm a fan of black and orange too (Harley racing colors).
But black with a chrome frame would be outstanding. If you could get some chrome stripes or accents on the body panels to tie it together I think it would set a new high on the "Jenvey Envy" scale.
2006 GL1800 (Brutus Maximus)
1978 GL1000 (White Trash - 2012 BOTY
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Re: JENVEY TF 40mm Twin Throttle Bodies "Alberta Super Clipp

#233

Post by Casper »

I picked up and fitted the S/C output plumbing today. I was very happy how well it fit. They said the crank pulley on Friday. I think I will just drill holes in the side covers for the tubes to exit, it will mean no drop down action on the side covers so I will have to come up with a means to put the hinge pins place from the bottom. or a replacement scheme. I do not think it will too hard to figure something out. Also when the intake manifolds get put in place, on top of the JENVEYS, there would be no room for the side cover to drop down anyhow. I think I am going with a 'Buck-Rogers' look and will putting two BOV on, on top of each intake manifold, the picture sort-of shows where they would go. Also I stopped in at a shop in town that does 3M film wrapping, they have some very cool colours and textures these days. I think I may go with a carbon fibre look for all the body panels. They had a car in the shop that they were doing a wrap of the hood in black carbon fibre, it looked good to me. But they also have some really neat coloured chromes. I am going to have them bring in some sample sheets and just play with them on the bike to see what colour, or style, looks the best.

Cheers
Attachments
IMG_0356.JPG
IMG_0356.JPG (79.32 KiB) Viewed 594 times
IMG_0357.JPG
IMG_0357.JPG (70.63 KiB) Viewed 594 times
IMG_0354.JPG
IMG_0354.JPG (81.05 KiB) Viewed 594 times
IMG_0359.JPG
IMG_0359.JPG (81.88 KiB) Viewed 594 times
1976 LTD, Being Returned to Stock
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Re: JENVEY TF 40mm Twin Throttle Bodies "Alberta Super Clipp

#234

Post by ericheath »

That little baby is a space saver. You have lots of room.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
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Re: JENVEY TF 40mm Twin Throttle Bodies "Alberta Super Clipp

#235

Post by robin1731 »

Casper wrote:snip........... it will mean no drop down action on the side covers so I will have to come up with a means to put the hinge pins place from the bottom. or a replacement scheme.
Cheers
No need for the pins if you are going to use the stock "knobs" on the side covers. Just like when using a fairing. They remove the pins and the knobs hold them fine.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
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Re: JENVEY TF 40mm Twin Throttle Bodies "Alberta Super Clipp

#236

Post by Casper »

Thanks Robin, some good advice.

The Rotrex C-15 is indeed small, and I am only using about 1/2 of it's potential on this build. I am only asking it to produce 1.5 Bar Max Boost at Red-Line. With a bigger crank drive pulley you can get about 2.2 Bar out of the unit, and still be at 72% thermal efficiency, a good number. They actually make a smaller unit the C-8, but you would have to drive it at its high end to get the boost I am looking for, in a single supercharger setup. I did consider a dual C-8 setup, but settled on the single C-15. A neat setup would be two C-8s driven off of the Cams, mounted 'out-in-wind' above the heads. But I got to hunker down and get this one built before I start playing on another project.
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Re: JENVEY TF 40mm Twin Throttle Bodies "Alberta Super Clipp

#237

Post by Casper »

I fabricated the accessory mount plate today, sorry no pics, I left both my camera and my cell at home today. But I did remember put my shoes on, as opposed to last week, when I was part way out to the shop and I discovered I was still wearing my house slippers :oops:. I was going to have the plate made, but the fellow I was planning to use at the airport, where my shop is located, could not get to it for a week or so. The other fabrication shop I use is a 45 minute drive, one way, so 4 x 45 equals doing it myself. I had wanted to do some Injector wiring today, but figured getting the plate made was a better use of my time for the few hours I had to work on the bike. I also figured out how I am going to secure it to the top of the engine, and started on the brackets to do so. Hopefully I can get some pictures uploaded tomorrow.

I also did some preliminary hand sketches of the intake manifolds, one simple welded design, one complex to be more Buck Rogers or StarTrek like to match the twin HKS BOVs I will be running with. I could also design in some embedded LEDs that would flash each time the BOVs opened :8)

Cheers,
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Standard 1976 GL1000 Being Morphed into the Alberta Super Clipper
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Re: JENVEY TF 40mm Twin Throttle Bodies "Alberta Super Clipp

#238

Post by Casper »

I got about 4 hours in today. I built up the R/H support bracket for the accessory mount tray. The tray is about 15" wide and is about 5.5" long on the left side, and some 7.5" long on the right side. I made it from .190" 2024 Aluminum, as I had some of that material in the shop. The bracket was two pieces of .050" 2024 riveted together. Both still need more work to be finished, and I need to make a L/H and a front support bracket.

I am not sure if I will polish them all, or PC them to match the engine case colour.

Cheers,
Attachments
IMG_0364.JPG
IMG_0364.JPG (77.57 KiB) Viewed 550 times
IMG_0363.JPG
IMG_0363.JPG (67.18 KiB) Viewed 550 times
1976 LTD, Being Returned to Stock
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Re: JENVEY TF 40mm Twin Throttle Bodies "Alberta Super Clipp

#239

Post by Casper »

Friday came and went, and no crank pulley, bummer. By the time I called them they were shut down for the weekend, double bummer. Maybe Monday. But my 'new' Lesters did come in today. I got them off of FleaBay. I am very happy with the condition, just some light surface corrosion that will not be to hard to take care of. I think I will use one of the Wheel Doctor shops in town. I had one of them do a car wheel repair a while back, it got dinged by a curb hit, ya dumb old me at the wheel. It came out perfect, much less than buying a new wheel from Mercedes. They turn them down on a special lathe, all they do is wheels. They weld if required, but in this case, and in the case of my car, it only requires a slight turn on the lathe, and a polish. I think I will keep the 'spokes' black but redo them in a gloss PC with a bit of sparkle, I will polish up just the raised edges of the spokes, so no PC there. If I do an accent colour on the bike I think I will do the half circle bead around the outside of the rims in that colour, and maybe some subtle pin-stripes somewhere in the hub area.

Ideas???

They came with all three brake discs that measure up just over +1mm over spec, so they could be ground down for one more use. However, I did not do a run-out test on them yet. But I think I may go with some of those fancy drilled SS ones OldFogey is pushing, they look mighty sweet to me.
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IMG_0366.JPG (37.85 KiB) Viewed 540 times
1976 LTD, Being Returned to Stock
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Re: JENVEY TF 40mm Twin Throttle Bodies "Alberta Super Clipp

#240

Post by Casper »

I picked up the crank pulley and fitted it. It seems to fit well and I was able to do a first pass alignment of the pulleys with no problems noted. Well one small problem was found with the setup. The right hand cam belt cover inside attach bolt interferes with the pulley and belt. I somehow missed that :oops: . But I have a workaround that I think will work out, I want to run with the covers in place and a just a 75mm (3") hole drilled for the 70mm pulley. I will have to make two small internal brackets that tie the left and right cam belt covers together. So I end up with three bolts as opposed four, it should work.

I took the Lesters in for a 'cosmetic' face lift. They will be media blasted and then the rim sections polished up. I am still not sure on the bikes color scheme, so the hubs and spokes will be done at a later date. The local wheel shop doing the work has a good reputation for show quality work.

A buddy dropped by and over a couple of brews we discussed how to do the intake manifolds. One idea is to use a sealed pressure box on top of the Jenvey's with internal velocity stacks to help smooth the airflow going into the engine. I found an outfit that makes an exact part that would fit, but a modification to the shelters would be required, it is designed for off-road use with Weber IDFs. Also it is just a square box, I think I will sort of copy the design but have it made with a few curves so as to be nicer looking, as it will be a very visible part of the bike.

Cheers,
1976 LTD, Being Returned to Stock
Standard 1976 GL1000 Being Morphed into the Alberta Super Clipper
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