Spin them suckers around
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- northwood
- Silver Member
- Posts: 902
- Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:02 pm
- Location: Mountain View, CA
Re: Spin them suckers around
Wow, this was QUICK! I think you will get more of a growl when a load is put on the engine. I never get one from mine until its under load. I did the CFD stuff, granted it wasn't very good. I wasn't sure what to use for intake velocity. And many other things. I didn't have time tonight to do all the research. It was more or less, this is what it will look like. I would love to see that set-up on the street. It would freak a lot of people out, I think. Congrats!
2015 Honda Grom (Soon)
2006 Honda VFR800 "Snowflake"
2007 Honda "Chicken Bacon Ranch" (CBR1000RR)
Previous Bikes:
1975 Honda "ol' Bird Dog" GL 1000 (Gone but not forgotten)
1982 Kawasaki AR80 (The one I will regret selling)
1982 Honda CM450E Not so Project "Connie"
1987 Yamaha Virago XV535
2005 Triumph Daytona 650
2006 Honda VFR800 "Snowflake"
2007 Honda "Chicken Bacon Ranch" (CBR1000RR)
Previous Bikes:
1975 Honda "ol' Bird Dog" GL 1000 (Gone but not forgotten)
1982 Kawasaki AR80 (The one I will regret selling)
1982 Honda CM450E Not so Project "Connie"
1987 Yamaha Virago XV535
2005 Triumph Daytona 650
- gregforesi
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- Location: Venice, FL
Re: Spin them suckers around
I know it seemed quick to everyone here, but from my point of view I've been putzing with the design for 5 years. It was just a question of making the parts. The design work was done before I made the first post.
I have options on what to do about carbs.
The Honda CR's look interesting but appear to be designed mostly for in-line 4's. Splitting them off may require a new design for the left-to-right sync.
Robin and Oldewing mentioned that the 1100 carbs were a lot easier to work on.
I have a '78 in the back of the barn. Those carbs are probably in need of a lot of work so they are an option. Are the jets in the 78 carbs the same design as the jets in the 76? I could hack up the jets of the 78 instead of the stock ones in the current carbs.
Then there are the Weber DCOE's, DellOrto DHLA's, and Mikuni PHH's. Since jets are readily available for all the dual-throat sidedrafts they are a better option for tuning.
For now I'll probably just shim the needles. This project has confirmed that the design is viable and appears to be tuneable. The 9" runners don't seem to make a difference.
The tubes were running cool but I only goosed it above idle a few times. The "icing" problem may exist. Since the tubes are fiberglass it would be possible to glass a copper tube into the side of each one and plumb them to the coolant system on the bike.
I have options on what to do about carbs.
The Honda CR's look interesting but appear to be designed mostly for in-line 4's. Splitting them off may require a new design for the left-to-right sync.
Robin and Oldewing mentioned that the 1100 carbs were a lot easier to work on.
I have a '78 in the back of the barn. Those carbs are probably in need of a lot of work so they are an option. Are the jets in the 78 carbs the same design as the jets in the 76? I could hack up the jets of the 78 instead of the stock ones in the current carbs.
Then there are the Weber DCOE's, DellOrto DHLA's, and Mikuni PHH's. Since jets are readily available for all the dual-throat sidedrafts they are a better option for tuning.
For now I'll probably just shim the needles. This project has confirmed that the design is viable and appears to be tuneable. The 9" runners don't seem to make a difference.
The tubes were running cool but I only goosed it above idle a few times. The "icing" problem may exist. Since the tubes are fiberglass it would be possible to glass a copper tube into the side of each one and plumb them to the coolant system on the bike.
2006 GL1800 (Brutus Maximus)
1978 GL1000 (White Trash - 2012 BOTY
(If you want to discuss the Trashmobile, Webers, Rearsets, Clubmans, or other stuff then send me a PM.)
"Getting old ain't for sissies" - Phyllis Diller
"So how much you gonna spend to win that $5 trophy?" - Cyborg
1978 GL1000 (White Trash - 2012 BOTY
(If you want to discuss the Trashmobile, Webers, Rearsets, Clubmans, or other stuff then send me a PM.)
"Getting old ain't for sissies" - Phyllis Diller
"So how much you gonna spend to win that $5 trophy?" - Cyborg
- wingless1
- Silver Member
- Posts: 520
- Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:40 am
- Location: grand falls, nb, canada
Re: Spin them suckers around
congrats on getting it running!!
If I were to build a carb set-up from scratch like you have been doing, I would base it on keihin fcr (flat cr) carbs-a development of the round cr I suspect). I have one on my dirtbike and they are very tunable, have an accel pump, come in sizes that work (36mm for 250cc mx bikes would be jsut about right for the wing). Getting the linkage set up would be the problem, as you'd have to build it from scratch (most of them are set up to run on singles or inline 4's).
Another option (with the same linkage issues) would be the mikuni bsr 36mm cv carb: has an accel/coast enrichener pump, very tunable, good flow properties and lots of selection of needles and jets to make it work for just about anything. They also tend to be cheap as they are taken off to be replaced by fcr's.
If I were to build a carb set-up from scratch like you have been doing, I would base it on keihin fcr (flat cr) carbs-a development of the round cr I suspect). I have one on my dirtbike and they are very tunable, have an accel pump, come in sizes that work (36mm for 250cc mx bikes would be jsut about right for the wing). Getting the linkage set up would be the problem, as you'd have to build it from scratch (most of them are set up to run on singles or inline 4's).
Another option (with the same linkage issues) would be the mikuni bsr 36mm cv carb: has an accel/coast enrichener pump, very tunable, good flow properties and lots of selection of needles and jets to make it work for just about anything. They also tend to be cheap as they are taken off to be replaced by fcr's.
1975 GL1000, '13 beta 300rr, '? ct110, '82 kz440ltd, '84 vf750f, cm185t
gone and missed: xs650, cb650sc, ts400, drz400s
gone and missed: xs650, cb650sc, ts400, drz400s
- rainstromrider
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Re: Spin them suckers around
Awsome work Greg!!! Is it just the intake growl leading you away from the stockers? I can totally see that coming down the road. The space in the middle leaves room for the alternator conversion, which would give you amperage to mount fire truck horns on each side with matching velocity stacks. 3 stacks peeking forward on each side. Just throwin out the idea?
Daily rider...
2012 Concours 1400
Projects...
81 1100 "Bones" (Stripped!)
Maintain...
Dad's 86 1200 Aspencade (my fee is being able to ride it whenever)
Uncle's 76 1000 (for sale)
- Oldewing
- Secretary
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- Location: Gahanna Ohio
Re: Spin them suckers around
Space in the center has been taken up by his speakers for his Ipod. Sounds great too
82 GL1100 Interstate-Oldewing October 23 BOTM
06 GL1800 Road bike, as in Rode alot...
Sometimes I wrestle with my inner demons.........
Other times we just hug.......
Team 898
Team LTD 993
Team 76 R2B3
And always remember: beer has some food value--but food has NO beer value...
06 GL1800 Road bike, as in Rode alot...
Sometimes I wrestle with my inner demons.........
Other times we just hug.......
Team 898
Team LTD 993
Team 76 R2B3
And always remember: beer has some food value--but food has NO beer value...
-
- Gold Member
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- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:59 pm
- Location: Greenville, SC, USA
Re: Spin them suckers around
Congrad's, Greg!!!
Mike
So many interests, so little time...
'76 GL1000: "The Super Bee" - finished.
'75 GL1000: Basket Case, Next project in queue
So many interests, so little time...
'76 GL1000: "The Super Bee" - finished.
'75 GL1000: Basket Case, Next project in queue
- Whiskerfish
- President
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- My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/whiskerfish/
- Location: Norfolk Va
Re: Spin them suckers around
Even if it never see's the road it is still a fantastic achievement
Well Done
Well Done
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!
Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!
Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
- gregforesi
- Honored Life Member
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- Location: Venice, FL
Re: Spin them suckers around
Thanks Boss.
The stock carbs could work fine. Robin is confident they can be jetted to fit the situation.
Northwood did some flow calculations on that front tube. Not good. The air slams into the first curve and disrupts the flow. I'm thinking about making that bend an oval so the air has more room to get around. I didn't wind the engine up past maybe 3500rpm. When it's getting enough fuel and gets spinning really fast I think that turbulence will hurt performance.
The bike I picked up from Rainstromrider needs a bit of work. Well, maybe more than a bit. I'm not in a hurry to get this completely finished.
The stock carbs could work fine. Robin is confident they can be jetted to fit the situation.
Northwood did some flow calculations on that front tube. Not good. The air slams into the first curve and disrupts the flow. I'm thinking about making that bend an oval so the air has more room to get around. I didn't wind the engine up past maybe 3500rpm. When it's getting enough fuel and gets spinning really fast I think that turbulence will hurt performance.
The bike I picked up from Rainstromrider needs a bit of work. Well, maybe more than a bit. I'm not in a hurry to get this completely finished.
2006 GL1800 (Brutus Maximus)
1978 GL1000 (White Trash - 2012 BOTY
(If you want to discuss the Trashmobile, Webers, Rearsets, Clubmans, or other stuff then send me a PM.)
"Getting old ain't for sissies" - Phyllis Diller
"So how much you gonna spend to win that $5 trophy?" - Cyborg
1978 GL1000 (White Trash - 2012 BOTY
(If you want to discuss the Trashmobile, Webers, Rearsets, Clubmans, or other stuff then send me a PM.)
"Getting old ain't for sissies" - Phyllis Diller
"So how much you gonna spend to win that $5 trophy?" - Cyborg
- robin1731
- Membership Admin
- Posts: 21724
- Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 8:31 am
- Location: Decatur, Indiana
Re: Spin them suckers around
Jeez, you barely have this one running. Let alone started tuning it. Now you want to make changes already?
There is a reason my race bike with the small engine runs faster than the one that is 65cc bigger. On motor only.
There is a reason my race bike with the small engine runs faster than the one that is 65cc bigger. On motor only.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
- gregforesi
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 4965
- Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:42 pm
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- Location: Venice, FL
Re: Spin them suckers around
Cyborg paid me a visit today and we played with the engine. I had shimmed the needles up by 1/16" and it certainly runs better. After Doug left I let it idle for about 20 minutes and checked the plugs. They look real good. A nice tan color with no indication that it's running lean.
It runs very well on the stand. I am now confident that there won't be any show-stopping problems that turn up. Just the normal "now how do I get around this" kind of things.
It runs very well on the stand. I am now confident that there won't be any show-stopping problems that turn up. Just the normal "now how do I get around this" kind of things.
2006 GL1800 (Brutus Maximus)
1978 GL1000 (White Trash - 2012 BOTY
(If you want to discuss the Trashmobile, Webers, Rearsets, Clubmans, or other stuff then send me a PM.)
"Getting old ain't for sissies" - Phyllis Diller
"So how much you gonna spend to win that $5 trophy?" - Cyborg
1978 GL1000 (White Trash - 2012 BOTY
(If you want to discuss the Trashmobile, Webers, Rearsets, Clubmans, or other stuff then send me a PM.)
"Getting old ain't for sissies" - Phyllis Diller
"So how much you gonna spend to win that $5 trophy?" - Cyborg
- robin1731
- Membership Admin
- Posts: 21724
- Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 8:31 am
- Location: Decatur, Indiana
Re: Spin them suckers around
The needles are still loose right?
As in remember what we talked about with them?
As in remember what we talked about with them?
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
- gregforesi
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 4965
- Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:42 pm
- My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/Greg+Foresi/
- Location: Venice, FL
Re: Spin them suckers around
Hi Rob,
The needles are tight. I made the counterbore tool but didn't use it. I re-assembled the slides into the carbs with the screws loose (sounds like me don't it?) and then tightened them down in place. There is no binding at all.
Since this fix worked - I figure I'm going to end up altering the secondary fuel jets. When I do that I can set the metering rods back to the stock height. Consequently I decided that I didn't want to alter the retaining screws. This is still in the experimental stage and I'd rather not alter something if I can get by in the short term. It ran pretty darn good.
Do you have any idea why a guy who is currently building a bike would take a 5 hour ride (last half hour in the rain) just to look at a weird intake setup? A hint is that I'll be going to Muskegon and taking some measurements on Tuesday.
The needles are tight. I made the counterbore tool but didn't use it. I re-assembled the slides into the carbs with the screws loose (sounds like me don't it?) and then tightened them down in place. There is no binding at all.
Since this fix worked - I figure I'm going to end up altering the secondary fuel jets. When I do that I can set the metering rods back to the stock height. Consequently I decided that I didn't want to alter the retaining screws. This is still in the experimental stage and I'd rather not alter something if I can get by in the short term. It ran pretty darn good.
Do you have any idea why a guy who is currently building a bike would take a 5 hour ride (last half hour in the rain) just to look at a weird intake setup? A hint is that I'll be going to Muskegon and taking some measurements on Tuesday.
2006 GL1800 (Brutus Maximus)
1978 GL1000 (White Trash - 2012 BOTY
(If you want to discuss the Trashmobile, Webers, Rearsets, Clubmans, or other stuff then send me a PM.)
"Getting old ain't for sissies" - Phyllis Diller
"So how much you gonna spend to win that $5 trophy?" - Cyborg
1978 GL1000 (White Trash - 2012 BOTY
(If you want to discuss the Trashmobile, Webers, Rearsets, Clubmans, or other stuff then send me a PM.)
"Getting old ain't for sissies" - Phyllis Diller
"So how much you gonna spend to win that $5 trophy?" - Cyborg
- robin1731
- Membership Admin
- Posts: 21724
- Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 8:31 am
- Location: Decatur, Indiana
Re: Spin them suckers around
gregforesi wrote:snip...Hi Rob,
The needles are tight. I made the counterbore tool but didn't use it. I re-assembled the slides into the carbs with the screws loose (sounds like me don't it?) and then tightened them down in place. There is no binding at all.
That isn't why they need to be loose. They need to "float" to work the way they were designed.
"Are you listening to the words that are coming out of my mouth?" (Chris Rock)
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
- gregforesi
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 4965
- Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:42 pm
- My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/Greg+Foresi/
- Location: Venice, FL
Re: Spin them suckers around
I'm listening. If I was going to leave this as a permanent thing I would have counterbored the screws. That's why I went to the trouble of making the tool.
2006 GL1800 (Brutus Maximus)
1978 GL1000 (White Trash - 2012 BOTY
(If you want to discuss the Trashmobile, Webers, Rearsets, Clubmans, or other stuff then send me a PM.)
"Getting old ain't for sissies" - Phyllis Diller
"So how much you gonna spend to win that $5 trophy?" - Cyborg
1978 GL1000 (White Trash - 2012 BOTY
(If you want to discuss the Trashmobile, Webers, Rearsets, Clubmans, or other stuff then send me a PM.)
"Getting old ain't for sissies" - Phyllis Diller
"So how much you gonna spend to win that $5 trophy?" - Cyborg
- hacksaw1945
- Silver Member
- Posts: 836
- Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:22 pm
Re: Spin them suckers around
Greg your a gett (R) done guy like what you have done here
1977 Honda GL 1000, 1982 Honda GL 1100I went naked, 1976 Honda LTD rough long range project, 1945 Indian Chief, 1947 Indian Chief, 1948 Indian Chief, 1958 Cushman Highlander, 1959 Cushman 3 wheel Mailister, 1966 Triumph TR6,
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