GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)

This is where discussions of EFI systems, Dual Carbs, Single Carb mods and plans can be discussed and shared.

If you are working on or have a problem with stock carbs then your questions do not belong here, please post them in the Goldwing Tech Discussions Forum.

Moderators: sunnbobb, Neil, Forum Moderators

User avatar
socrace
Titanium Member
Titanium Member
Posts: 325
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:46 pm
Location: Springfield, Ill.

GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)

Post #1 by socrace » Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:33 am

Converted my GL1100 to fuel injection a couple of weeks ago, and thought I would share some info about it. Have done many efi conversions over the last 15 years or so on cars, but this was my first bike conversion. Been using it for errands around town, and have put about 50 miles on it, been running well.
Right now it uses the stock ignition, with the ecu controlling fuel only. Total cash outlay was about $300, not including the ecu.
Here's a quick description and some pictures of what was done:
THROTTLE BODIES/MANIFOLDS
The original carbs and manifolds have been replaced with manifolds and throttle bodies from a 1985 Honda GL1200 LTD. Bought on ebay for $150 incl shipping, which seems to be about average for a complete unit. It basically comes with everything needed except sensors, fuel pump and ecu. The throttle body/manifolds need to be modified to fit the GL1100 in 2 main ways; need to take out about 10mm of overall width (JBWeld), and port match the manifolds to the heads by about 2mm.
IMGA0280x.JPG

IMGA0286x.JPG

SENSORS
The stock Honda tps sensor was used. The map sensor is a standard GM unit connected to the stock manifolds with equal length tubes and t fittings. The stock reed valves and air injection units are gone and the idle air tubes routed to a Ford IAC motor. The stock injectors are low impedance, so need a stock Honda ballast resistor, or use 4, 10 ohm 10watt resistors from Radio Shack ($1 each). The coolant temp sensor is a VDO 323-057 using a m18x1.5 adapter ($25 for both), mounted in place of the fan switch, which is now controlled by the ecu.
IMGA0284x.JPG

IMGA0301x.JPG

FUEL PUMP
The fuel pump needs to put out 40psi at 10 gal/hr (3 bar at 40 litres/hr), which is pretty small compared to the average car so just about anything from the junk yard should work. Mounted a new ebay $35 unit in-tank, which is probably the hardest way to do it, but its very quiet and takes up less space. Pump is a typical car 30 gal/hr at 5 amps, so using a smaller 36w bulb in the headlight to compensate, mainly to allow some battery charging at idle.
IMGA0278x.JPG

ECU
A megasquirt unit should work. I'm using a modified Edelbrock/Weber Pro-Flo, configured to do sequential injection. Have tried batch injection (megasquirt method) and it basically runs the same although idle quality is marginally better with sequential.
TUNING
I'm using my standard tune for a small block Chevy with cam duration 220I/230E(.05), reduced for cylinder size. It's very close according to the O2 sensor. Have not put it on a dyno yet.

That's about it, hopefully didn't forget to mention anything major.
Bob D
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by socrace on Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.
1981 Goldwing Standard - efi'd, other stuff

User avatar
alan hawke
Photo Gallery Admin
Photo Gallery Admin
Posts: 1702
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:17 am
My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans//alanhawke
Location: Australia

Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies

Post #2 by alan hawke » Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:42 am

Very nicely done Bob.
Alan



Image


1975 GL1000
1976 GL1000
2000 ZX6R KAWASAKI
2009 vn1700 kawasaki classic

User avatar
Old Fogey
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 7154
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:31 pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Contact:

Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies

Post #3 by Old Fogey » Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:18 am

Oh, that is sooooooooooooooo neat ! Well done! Relatively easy conversion too (Says he, not having a total clue about fuel injection! :lol: :lol: )
"Impossible Is Just a Level of Difficulty!..."
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous! :-D

User avatar
JBz
SUPER BIKER!!!!
SUPER BIKER!!!!
Posts: 3063
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: dayton nv

Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies

Post #4 by JBz » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:12 pm

cool man. Just curious can you tell us some impressions as far as acceleration if your old carbs were good . Do you think it was worth it. Maybe fuel mileage a little later. JB
jbz........... Thinkin about sh-t too hard and You wont get anything done

User avatar
Cookie
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 15821
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:37 pm
RIP: 1950-2011
Location: San Mateo, CA

Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies

Post #5 by Cookie » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:18 pm

Excellent job, I'm very impressed.
Enjoy life,
Cookie


A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad.
Owner of 4.4 76s and one lone 75 Wings (does a spare engine make .2?)

User avatar
socrace
Titanium Member
Titanium Member
Posts: 325
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:46 pm
Location: Springfield, Ill.

Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies

Post #6 by socrace » Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:35 pm

Thanks to all for the comments.
Yes, it was pretty easy to do, mostly due to the efforts of the Honda engineers back in 1985! I think the 1986 SEI uses the same parts as well.
As for performance, it does have the the typical efi advantages of improved cold startup, throttle response and (probably) gas mileage. In addition, there seems to be much less engine vibration; it had a really noticeable buzz around 2k rpm that is now entirely gone, not sure if thats due to the efi or something else happened during the install.
Here's a couple more pictures showing the wiring changes, one of the more time consuming parts of the job that should have mentioned before:
IMGA0304x.JPG

IMGA0306x.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by socrace on Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1981 Goldwing Standard - efi'd, other stuff

User avatar
dan filipi
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 1756
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:22 am
My Album: http://classicgoldwings.com/forum/galle ... album_id=1
Location: Reseda, California
Contact:

Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies

Post #7 by dan filipi » Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:55 pm

I've wondered for a long time if this can be done and you showed it can!

The width had to be shortened, I suppose that would be true for 1200 carbs to mount on also?
I've thought about doing this because I find the 1200 carbs superior to the 1100 carbs especially the cold enrichener circuit.
'83 Interstate and an
'83 parts bike

http://classicgoldwings.com
My Album

Image

User avatar
CYBORG
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 22152
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:52 pm
Location: Muskegon mich

Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies

Post #8 by CYBORG » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:48 pm

i think it is one of the neatest i've seen. i've been trying to deside if i want to do FI on my 1200 project or not. i have most of the FI components. but not having done one before, i'm moving rather slow. you make it look easy. would like to have some component part numbers and wiring diagrams. we all could benefit from them
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200

User avatar
socrace
Titanium Member
Titanium Member
Posts: 325
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:46 pm
Location: Springfield, Ill.

Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)

Post #9 by socrace » Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:02 pm

Thanks again for the comments.
Can something similar be done to adapt the GL1200 carbs? Probably so! Something I forgot to mention before was that a lever arm from the old GL1100 plenum fits perfectly on the narrowed side of the LTD plenum, quite a coincidence.
As for a wiring diagram, I've attached mine below, although another ecu will come with it's own that may be a little different. The cam sync sensor shown is pretty simple. It's just another map sensor connected to the extra cyl 4 vacuum port. This vacuum port was used by the LTD to run the cruise control, but the ecu can use it to identify which cylinder is firing.
WingWiring_generic.PNG

This brings up the issue of a crank position sensor. It's not needed in this case when using the stock ignition system, but did have to build something to get a combined left and right ignitor signal. The attached schematic shows how to take a combined signal off the ballast resistor and condition it so that the ecu (which normally uses a hall effect sensor) can read it.
TriggerCoil2.PNG

Bob D
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by socrace on Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1981 Goldwing Standard - efi'd, other stuff

GL Bryan
Tin Member
Tin Member
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:59 pm
Location: Skiatook USA

Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)

Post #10 by GL Bryan » Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:00 pm

All I can say is WOW. That is very nice socrace.

User avatar
JBz
SUPER BIKER!!!!
SUPER BIKER!!!!
Posts: 3063
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: dayton nv

Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)

Post #11 by JBz » Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:46 pm

can you go into details a little more on the fuel pump and the fuel sending unit. Thanks JB
jbz........... Thinkin about sh-t too hard and You wont get anything done

User avatar
socrace
Titanium Member
Titanium Member
Posts: 325
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:46 pm
Location: Springfield, Ill.

Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)

Post #12 by socrace » Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:23 am

Hi JB,
The pump I used is a Walbro 5CA201, fits 1987-1988 Ford Escort 4 Cyl. 1.9L EFI (VIN J).
Fuel filter is Wix 33310 (5/16 hose barbs), fits Honda Passport EX & LX 3.2L V6 1994-2002.
A good external pump to use instead would be airtex E8312 (5/16 hose barbs), from 1983-1986 Isuzu Impulse.
External pump needs 2 filters, one between the pump and the tank, because any junk that gets into the pump will lock it up and totally strand you (yep, it sure will)..
Bob D
1981 Goldwing Standard - efi'd, other stuff

User avatar
mooseheadm5
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 1660
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:11 pm
Location: Charlottesville

Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)

Post #13 by mooseheadm5 » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:48 pm

Great job! This is exactly what I had planned to do but I have not been able to take the bike off the road long enough until now.

If anyone needs, I have a set of throttles/elbows/fuel rails/harness etc. that I was planning to use on my wing. I am taking a different direction with mine so it is up for grabs.

I've wondered for a long time if this can be done and you showed it can!

The width had to be shortened, I suppose that would be true for 1200 carbs to mount on also?
I've thought about doing this because I find the 1200 carbs superior to the 1100 carbs especially the cold enrichener circuit.


I measured something like 12mm difference between the 1000/1100 and the 1200 and that it would be easy to do if one wanted to.
It's not what people know that gets them into trouble, but what they know that ain't so. -Variously ascribed

-P

Learn to use a Multimeter, Click here!

User avatar
ericheath
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 8739
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:20 am

Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)

Post #14 by ericheath » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:12 pm

The big question..... Does it improve performance? Economy? I am guessing it starts better and will require less maintenance over the years. That is a neat looking job. Kudos. Wintertime is time to get people thinking about this again. Any feedback on the above,Bob D?
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi

User avatar
socrace
Titanium Member
Titanium Member
Posts: 325
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:46 pm
Location: Springfield, Ill.

Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)

Post #15 by socrace » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:24 am

Hi Eric, thanks for the comments.

Well, ran it all last season and it was very reliable and fun to ride. Its hard to explain whats better about it except to say the throttle is very linear and predictable. For example, can ride one handed on slow corners with the throttle barely open, no surging, "trailor hitching" or other drama like that. Max power is probably about the same, even though feels stronger was making ignition improvements at the same time such as went to Ford DIS coils and Iridium plugs and cleaned up (eliminated) most of the original 1981 wiring connectors.

This winter will be installing a 36 tooth crank wheel and sensor. Have a '98 Ford Escort EEC-V engine/ignition controller from ebay ($75) that should allow full control of fuel and spark. Will probably be using software from TunerPro to do the re-mapping. Plan is to mount the crank wheel on the front and have the sensor come out through a hole in the timing belt cover, we'll see if there's room to do it that way.

It has been very reliable, except when the ebay $35 "new" fuel pump took a dump about 70 mi from home. It actually was still pumping fuel, but only at about 1/2 pressure so it suddenly started slowing way down and barely ran until the O2 sensor relearned and richened up the mixture about 30% or so then it ran pretty well the reast of the way back. Some of these ebay deals on new parts are sometimes defective in obscure kinds of ways.

Bob D
1981 Goldwing Standard - efi'd, other stuff


Return to “Unique Carburetion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest