'79 Wing and a Prayer

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Whiskerfish
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#91

Post by Whiskerfish »

I suspect some of those "lips" are built in for stiffness of the cover?
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
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Lucien Harpress
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#92

Post by Lucien Harpress »

Most of the idiosyncrasies I saw when doing mine I chocked up to either "Honda Engineering" (like, everything works, but did you HAVE to design these parts to fit this tightly next to each other?) or the fact most of the motor design was done by the automotive division.
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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NotSoLilCrippseys
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#93

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

It's been slow going for a couple weeks. Covid, work, and my wife had a really bad fall and broke her leg. Thankfully, there'll be no surgery for her! I think these last two situations mean more slow going for some time.

I managed to get the rear cover back on. I had purchased some copper gasket spray, so I made use of it. I don't know that it's really needed, but it's supposed to fill small imperfections and all. I do expect I'll use it on the head gaskets, which is why I bought it.
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For some reason, I took a little detour to do some valve cover cleaning. I'm not done with them, but I'm pretty happy with the way they've cleaned up so far.
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I also have the replacement front cover all cleaned up, and I've installed the water pump to get ready to button up the front before I paint the block. I don't know if I'll get around to mounting the cover before next weekend - if then. With my wife mostly out of commission, it's tough to move forward on a side project bike.

It's become obvious that I'll be parking this project in a corner of the shed before long to enable me to get the other bikes out for riding season.

If I had to guess today, I'd say this '79 project won't roll down the road before spring 2023. I thought late summer '22 as recently as a couple months ago.

In other news, I bought a triple tree from a GL1100, with the intention of attempting to use my larger diameter '83 forks (and '82 Comstar front wheel) on the GL1000. It'll take some grinding/drilling/welding, and I think I've read that I'll also need to modify things up top to get the gauges to mount. But I'll feel good about it if it works. I just finished an intro welding class a couple weeks back. I'm now certified as knowledgeable enough to be dangerous, which is partly why I'm going to attempt the task. And with my new timeline, I'll have a whole year to figure out the front end.
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our 1983 GL1100I rescue gone naked.

In the Stable and Ridable
1992 ST1100 - my longer haul tourer
1992 XJ600S - son's streetfighter
1987 VFR700 - son's latest, in blue/silver
1983 - GL1100I - naked Blue Phoenix (son's, really)
1982 GL1100I - naked bagger Cabernet
1979 GL1000 - Ginger Lynn, but not that Ginger Lynn (Wing and a Prayer)
1978 CB550K - son's cafe (carb issues still vex)

Active Project(s)
1979 GL1000 - Confirmed one owner, with original paperwork. Vetter fairing and bags, off the road in dry, heated storage for 35 years.

Sold
Not lookin' back to avoid regrets
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NotSoLilCrippseys
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#94

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

Get busy and time slips by. Not a lot of progress to report on this '79.

I mounted up the front cover, using as many GL1100 bolts, which I have from a parts bike with bad motor, as would fit in the GL1000 cover. That screw hole in the top right (left if facing the cover) is recessed, and it's not possible to use the GL1100 bolts, as the socket can't get in to tighten things up. So, one screw and a bunch of bolts.
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Before painting the block, I'll give it all one more cleaning and tape up the places where I don't want paint.

I have no idea on a timeline, but perhaps before mid-June I'll have a black engine block and be ready to bolt on the heads.

With most of the ridable bikes out of the shed for the season, there's more working room than I imagined and I might make some progress on this '79 even as my son works on his CB cafe project - which is coming along in its own right.
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our 1983 GL1100I rescue gone naked.

In the Stable and Ridable
1992 ST1100 - my longer haul tourer
1992 XJ600S - son's streetfighter
1987 VFR700 - son's latest, in blue/silver
1983 - GL1100I - naked Blue Phoenix (son's, really)
1982 GL1100I - naked bagger Cabernet
1979 GL1000 - Ginger Lynn, but not that Ginger Lynn (Wing and a Prayer)
1978 CB550K - son's cafe (carb issues still vex)

Active Project(s)
1979 GL1000 - Confirmed one owner, with original paperwork. Vetter fairing and bags, off the road in dry, heated storage for 35 years.

Sold
Not lookin' back to avoid regrets
User avatar
Whiskerfish
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#95

Post by Whiskerfish »

I think robin1731 sells a front transmission bolt kit. Just send him a PM if interested
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
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Old Fogey
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#96

Post by Old Fogey »

Front wheel and brake discs are 78. I'm guessing a frame change at some point.
"Impossible Is Just a Level of Difficulty!..."
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous! :-D
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NotSoLilCrippseys
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#97

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

I didn't realize how long I've been absent. Work, wife's injury, college-aged kids and return for summer, and so much more.

Sadly, there's no real progress to report on the '79 with '78 bits stuck on here and there. (Or is it the '78 on a '79 frame?)

The bike has been moved out of the "working area" of the shed to give my son space for his CB550 cafe project - which is itself a fun one to assist on. Rear sets, clip-ons, and a cafe saddle make for a riding position that I can't imagine being comfortable for anything more than 20 minutes - if that.

At this point, my next move on the '79/8 has to be a once-more cleaning of the engine block, followed by the black engine paint. Once that's on and cured, it'll be time to mount up the heads.

After the CB550 rolls out of the shed and down the road, I'll have room to pull the front end and play with the GL1100 fork/tree swap. No rush.

I've not made any measurable headway on chasing down some of the wiring challenges that will clearly keep the bike from starting with the controls on the bars. My green/red wire running to the relay near the battery was cut by some PO. And the start button itself had no wires attached. I guess that's a rainy day with tunes and a multimeter sort of thing to tinker with.

The bike is sort of at that low-point moment when folks are more-than-half-likely to throw it all in a basket and toss in the towel before listing it "for parts or as a project."
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our 1983 GL1100I rescue gone naked.

In the Stable and Ridable
1992 ST1100 - my longer haul tourer
1992 XJ600S - son's streetfighter
1987 VFR700 - son's latest, in blue/silver
1983 - GL1100I - naked Blue Phoenix (son's, really)
1982 GL1100I - naked bagger Cabernet
1979 GL1000 - Ginger Lynn, but not that Ginger Lynn (Wing and a Prayer)
1978 CB550K - son's cafe (carb issues still vex)

Active Project(s)
1979 GL1000 - Confirmed one owner, with original paperwork. Vetter fairing and bags, off the road in dry, heated storage for 35 years.

Sold
Not lookin' back to avoid regrets
User avatar
NotSoLilCrippseys
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Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:21 am
Location: York County, Maine

Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#98

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

My son's CB550 Cafe project is now out of the shed, freeing up space needed to move forward on this '79 project. That bike is not yet road legal, but it will be soon. The first test ride was late last week.

Not 10 minutes after he took the bike out from a run around the block, he said, "When are you going to paint that GL1000 block so we can get the heads back on it?" On Friday evening, I got out the painter's tape. On Saturday morning, I went over the whole thing with degreaser. In the afternoon, I brushed on the POR-15 engine paint.

I laid it on too thick and ended up with more runs and sags than I wanted to see. I was working with the instructions that it covers in one coat, which is boloney when going from silver to black. I should have done a light coat with brush marks and followed up with a second one. (Lesson learned, but I don't know that I'll be painting another one of these motors.)

I think it looks ok. Curing won't be an issue, as I'm weeks from putting it back in the frame and probably months from an attempted start.
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I ended up suspending the motor from some hooks in the rafters to get full access, and it's hanging at a weird dangle owing to my attachment points. It'll be a little bit before I take it down, as I've read that this paint takes forever to get hard enough to handle resting on a bench without damage. Worst case, I suppose, is that I touch up the bottom once it's in the frame.

With all the silver bits that'll end up on it, the black will end up receding into the background - I expect.
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our 1983 GL1100I rescue gone naked.

In the Stable and Ridable
1992 ST1100 - my longer haul tourer
1992 XJ600S - son's streetfighter
1987 VFR700 - son's latest, in blue/silver
1983 - GL1100I - naked Blue Phoenix (son's, really)
1982 GL1100I - naked bagger Cabernet
1979 GL1000 - Ginger Lynn, but not that Ginger Lynn (Wing and a Prayer)
1978 CB550K - son's cafe (carb issues still vex)

Active Project(s)
1979 GL1000 - Confirmed one owner, with original paperwork. Vetter fairing and bags, off the road in dry, heated storage for 35 years.

Sold
Not lookin' back to avoid regrets
User avatar
pidjones
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#99

Post by pidjones »

The solid color POR15 levels out brush strokes pretty well with time.
"Love 'em all.... let God sort 'em out!"
Ex 2006 GL1800 - the Black Pearl SOLD! to make room for:
2021 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited Dark Chalk Metallic
1975 Red GL1000 project - ex Pistol Pete project
1972 Triumph T150V Trident rescue - finished and FOR SALE!
1976 Yamaha RD400c
1978 GL1000 with '75 engine - the Hunley
Ex 1978 GL1000
Ex 1979 GL1000
Ex '79 CB750F rat bike
Ex '86 SEi
Ex '77 GL1000
Ex '76 RD400
Ex '72 Penton 125 set up for flat track
Ex '73 RD250
Ex '68 TR6C - chopped
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NotSoLilCrippseys
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#100

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

Pidjones: Hopefully, it levels out a bit in the heat treat (probably not happening until next Spring given my progress and the issues I'm staring down.)

Help from those who've been to the head gasket rodeo before:

Today I got started putting the pieces together to put the heads back on. This is my first go round with Wing heads, and it's been months since I removed them. I kept left and right cams separate, as well as the bolts. And I thought I ordered all I needed to replace mangled bits and the little o-rings that surround the oil orifice thingie.

And then, in my little container with bits that I thought are part of the cam/head removal, I found 1 small diameter tube, 2 identical but mangled tubes, and no 4th one. I guess I lost one mangled one in the process, and I'll need to place an order to finish up the job - for certain. Notice those little guys in my hand (right side of the photo).
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I can't figure out where those little tubes go and have no idea why I didn't order some up back when I was noting the bits I'd need to replace. I've checked exploded schematics and find the larger tubes that go on the block side of the head (I have those! #26 in the diagram below) and the smaller diameter tubes that go on the camshaft side (got those. #25 in the diagram). I have both my oil orifice tubes (and new OEM gaskets for them).
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I don't recognize them immediately as part of the cooling system, and they're not part of the carbs (I've gone through those.)

What am I missing here?
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our 1983 GL1100I rescue gone naked.

In the Stable and Ridable
1992 ST1100 - my longer haul tourer
1992 XJ600S - son's streetfighter
1987 VFR700 - son's latest, in blue/silver
1983 - GL1100I - naked Blue Phoenix (son's, really)
1982 GL1100I - naked bagger Cabernet
1979 GL1000 - Ginger Lynn, but not that Ginger Lynn (Wing and a Prayer)
1978 CB550K - son's cafe (carb issues still vex)

Active Project(s)
1979 GL1000 - Confirmed one owner, with original paperwork. Vetter fairing and bags, off the road in dry, heated storage for 35 years.

Sold
Not lookin' back to avoid regrets
User avatar
pidjones
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#101

Post by pidjones »

The large tube is a "dowel" (26) there is one over two head bolts on each side as I remember. The smaller pair are also dowels (25) That go over cam holder bolts. Their locations obvious when you check as those holes are larger to permit their insertion and alignment of parts. In the top left is an oil flow restrictor (5) that gets 2 o-rings and goes in the hole between and above the cylinder holes. Make sure it is clean - big end towards block. Without it too much oil goes to the head - if it gets plugged it starved the head for any oil (disastrous!) Make sure a restrictor is in each head and two big and two small dowels in each.

BTW, you should get replacements for any bunged-up ones. Some dowels may still be in the head, block, or cam carrier.
"Love 'em all.... let God sort 'em out!"
Ex 2006 GL1800 - the Black Pearl SOLD! to make room for:
2021 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited Dark Chalk Metallic
1975 Red GL1000 project - ex Pistol Pete project
1972 Triumph T150V Trident rescue - finished and FOR SALE!
1976 Yamaha RD400c
1978 GL1000 with '75 engine - the Hunley
Ex 1978 GL1000
Ex 1979 GL1000
Ex '79 CB750F rat bike
Ex '86 SEi
Ex '77 GL1000
Ex '76 RD400
Ex '72 Penton 125 set up for flat track
Ex '73 RD250
Ex '68 TR6C - chopped
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NotSoLilCrippseys
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#102

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

Pidjones. Thanks.

I have the big dowels (26) and the smaller dowels (25). I picked up 2 replacement large dowels back after I pulled the heads and mangled one. (Now I have 5 but need only 4 - a spare.) Thanks for the heads up on the direction for the oil restrictor.

What's confusing me are the 3 really small dowels I have. There are 2 in my hand in that photo. One is undamaged. Two are mangled, clearly from my efforts to extract them. And a likely fourth is nowhere to be found.

Those are much smaller than either #25 or #26 in the diagram. And I already have the #25s fitted into the outside of the heads, so I'm pretty certain they're in the right spot. So, in a sense I have 3 sizes of "dowels" or spacers. Big 26 that go between head and block. Medium 25 that go between head and cam. And mystery tiny guys.

I cannot figure out where they came from on the bike - or why they'd be in a tiny tupperware container housing key bits I pulled when removing the cams/heads if they weren't part of that extraction. (Carb bits go with carb bits. Coolant bits go together.... At least I like to think I try to do that.)

I'm stumped. I've been to a manual. I've been to the diagrams for parts. I've looked at the photos I took when pulling the heads - clearly, I did not take enough of those to help me. And the months and multiple other "projects" have removed whatever distinct "I-was-here-and-did-x" memory I might otherwise have of them. Clearly, they didn't come willingly, so you'd think I might recall.

They came from somewhere - maybe my wife snuck out to the shed last March and threw some junk into my container just to mess with my head. Nah.
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our 1983 GL1100I rescue gone naked.

In the Stable and Ridable
1992 ST1100 - my longer haul tourer
1992 XJ600S - son's streetfighter
1987 VFR700 - son's latest, in blue/silver
1983 - GL1100I - naked Blue Phoenix (son's, really)
1982 GL1100I - naked bagger Cabernet
1979 GL1000 - Ginger Lynn, but not that Ginger Lynn (Wing and a Prayer)
1978 CB550K - son's cafe (carb issues still vex)

Active Project(s)
1979 GL1000 - Confirmed one owner, with original paperwork. Vetter fairing and bags, off the road in dry, heated storage for 35 years.

Sold
Not lookin' back to avoid regrets
User avatar
Old Fogey
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#103

Post by Old Fogey »

There are only 4 dowels per head; 2- 12 x 20mm (head to block) and 2- 10 x 16mm (cam carrier to head), all which you say you have. There is really no reason to remove the cam carrier dowels, but if those damaged ones are not from there or if you didn't order new small ones with other parts I'm at a loss.
Except maybe.............
There are 8 x 14 used in other places in the engine. There are two on the front trans cover for the water pump housing and another between the trans cover and the block for the pressure releaf. You have had both covers off.
The one in th block for the pressure release also needs an 8mm O ring
"Impossible Is Just a Level of Difficulty!..."
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous! :-D
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NotSoLilCrippseys
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#104

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

Old Fogey wins the prize - again!

Those little dowels came from the front cover and water pump swap. I had sort of forgotten that I had a devil of a time with sheared bolts trying to get the water pump and front cover out and needed to source a new front cover. I'm not sure how they ended up in the "head bits" container, but they did.

Thanks a bunch for helping alleviate my worry that I was missing something important somewhere. (And, yes, I'm 100% confident that I put the dowels back in when I did the swap.)

I'll soon return to the regularly scheduled programming: Head gaskets and timing belts. I'm going to see if I can pull my son in for the work, as he kinda sorta owes me given my assistance on his CB550 cafe build.
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Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our 1983 GL1100I rescue gone naked.

In the Stable and Ridable
1992 ST1100 - my longer haul tourer
1992 XJ600S - son's streetfighter
1987 VFR700 - son's latest, in blue/silver
1983 - GL1100I - naked Blue Phoenix (son's, really)
1982 GL1100I - naked bagger Cabernet
1979 GL1000 - Ginger Lynn, but not that Ginger Lynn (Wing and a Prayer)
1978 CB550K - son's cafe (carb issues still vex)

Active Project(s)
1979 GL1000 - Confirmed one owner, with original paperwork. Vetter fairing and bags, off the road in dry, heated storage for 35 years.

Sold
Not lookin' back to avoid regrets
User avatar
Old Fogey
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#105

Post by Old Fogey »

Glad to have helped!
"Impossible Is Just a Level of Difficulty!..."
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous! :-D
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