Mr.H's new engine

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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Mr.H's new engine

#76

Post by Sidecar Bob »

I know I should use the 1100 the camshaft holders that came with the 1100 heads because the bearing surfaces have to be machined in both together.

I think I should I use the 1000 rockers with the 1000 cams (in the 1100 heads) but I would like confirmation.

Also, should I be thinking about dressing the cams & followers in any way? There are shallow ridges on the lifting areas of the lobes and matching grooves in the followers. None of them have sharp edges and while they look bad I can barely feel them with a fingernail.....
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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Re: Mr.H's new engine

#77

Post by Track T 2411 »

Keep the holders with the heads, and the rockers with the cams, if possible.
"I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

"He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail" - Abraham Maslow

"If you can't take the time to do it right the first time, how are you ever going to find the time to do it over?" -Unknown

Current Rides:
'Grumpy' - '81 Standard, now fully dressed.
'Layla' - '81 Standard w/dealer installed fairing and Hondaline bags.
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The 'Jalopy' '78-'79 Mash-up
'Quikie' '81 gl1100I back on the lift, project with the step-son!

In The Shed:
'81 gl1100I barn find aka "Josie, the farmer's daughter." (almost comatose build)
'77 gl1000, roller parts bike.
'82 gl1100I, 'Old Crusty' titled roller parts bike (free!)
'82 gl1100I, My first 'Wing, and an expensive lesson!
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ericheath
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Re: Mr.H's new engine

#78

Post by ericheath »

Check Wingovations site for Old Fogeys recommendation on dressing the cam surfaces.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
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gltriker
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Re: Mr.H's new engine

#79

Post by gltriker »

I would take a close look at where each valve lash adjuster screw's, ball end contacts its complementing valve stem tip for wear, too.
If needed, New adjuster screws and their locking nuts are still available from Honda parts. tumb2
Last edited by gltriker on Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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robin1731
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Re: Mr.H's new engine

#80

Post by robin1731 »

Sidecar Bob wrote:snip........... There are shallow ridges on the lifting areas of the lobes and matching grooves in the followers. None of them have sharp edges and while they look bad I can barely feel them with a fingernail.....
That is not a good thing. You should never be able to see/feel any wear like that.

.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Mr.H's new engine

#81

Post by Sidecar Bob »

I read John's page. It talks about dressing the followers if you have to replace the camshaft but don't have the followers that it is worn in with it. That's why I'm not sure.

I looked at a lot of pics of damaged cams online but couldn't find any that looked like mine. They all had a lot of sharp, deep scoring or large rough areas. Here are pics of the marks on the worst of mine. It almost looks like there were harder areas on the lobes that didn't wear as quickly and they wore grooves in the followers
Image
Image

BTW: The adjusters look OK, as do the ends of the valves.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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Re: Mr.H's new engine

#82

Post by robin1731 »

I wouldn't run those pieces unless I absolutely had too. The wear will get worse. Going by the pics it is past the hardened part of the cam and follower.

.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Mr.H's new engine

#83

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Interesting. From the ridges at the edges of the cam lobes where the followers don't rub these cams appear to have less wear than the ones in the 79,000 Km 1100 engine. And the followers don't look as worn either. Other than the grooves that match the ridges on the cams, that is.

In the last day I have spent several hours on Google trying to find pics of similar wear with no luck. As I said, the ridges & grooves are not very deep. I had to take a bunch of pics before I got ones that showed them...

I think the hole in the follower on the left in this pic from http://www.wingovations.com/cams-and-rockers/4579471096 showing followers that have been dressed looks deeper
Image
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Mr.H's new engine

#84

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Today I learned how to lap the cams & followers. I started by going over them with emery cloth wrapped around a file per the Wingovations link above, then with 400 grit aluminum oxide paper and finished them on the buffing wheel. I cleaned everything with Tool & Parts spray afterwards and then assembled the followers into the 1100 head's cam holder with moly/lith grease, making sure to keep the followers on their original lobes.
Image
Tomorrow I'm going to see if I can figure out how to get the valves out to lap them. Its hard to get my valve spring compressor under the springs because of the big ridges next to them and when I do it lifts the bottom instead of pushing the top down and I can't get the collets out.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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ericheath
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Re: Mr.H's new engine

#85

Post by ericheath »

Out if curiosity, did you happen to measure the cam lobe max before and after? I’m curious as to how much stellite the aluminum oxide was able to remove. I never found a source stating how thick it is. I’m thinking it’s a couple mm thick based on some info about stellite coating other metals, but the service limit is not even 1 mm.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Mr.H's new engine

#86

Post by Sidecar Bob »

I didn't measure them but the aluminum oxide didn't take much off; I basically used it to get rid of the sanding marks from the emery cloth. As I said before, the marks weren't very deep so I doubt if I removed more than a few thous.

BTW: I found a couple of videos about removing valve springs


Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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BikeMaine
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Re: Mr.H's new engine

#87

Post by BikeMaine »

Good information!
Kevin
1982 GL1100A
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Track T 2411
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Re: Mr.H's new engine

#88

Post by Track T 2411 »

Nice videos, but what's supporting the valve to keep it from moving with the spring?
"I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

"He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail" - Abraham Maslow

"If you can't take the time to do it right the first time, how are you ever going to find the time to do it over?" -Unknown

Current Rides:
'Grumpy' - '81 Standard, now fully dressed.
'Layla' - '81 Standard w/dealer installed fairing and Hondaline bags.
'Scarlett' '76 'Survivor' nekkid as a j-bird!

Under Construction:
The 'Jalopy' '78-'79 Mash-up
'Quikie' '81 gl1100I back on the lift, project with the step-son!

In The Shed:
'81 gl1100I barn find aka "Josie, the farmer's daughter." (almost comatose build)
'77 gl1000, roller parts bike.
'82 gl1100I, 'Old Crusty' titled roller parts bike (free!)
'82 gl1100I, My first 'Wing, and an expensive lesson!
New2U Bike? Read Me.
User avatar
Sidecar Bob
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Re: Mr.H's new engine

#89

Post by Sidecar Bob »

The guy with the vise grips doesn't say. The other guy did 3 videos with different tools and one of them came with a sheet of rubber with a bump to support the valve. I wadded up a rag to support the valve, slipped a magnet inside a 19mm deep socket and bopped it with the deadblow hammer and it worked just like he showed. I tried both methods of getting it back together and all I accomplished was scratching up the socket with the Vise-Grips.

Then I remembered using a big c-clamp and a modified brass bushing to do this about 30 years ago. And then I remembered seeing the modified bushing recently so I dug around and here's my GoldWing valve spring compressor (note the telescopic magnet to fish the collet out)
Valve spring compressor.JPG
Valve spring compressor.JPG (105.16 KiB) Viewed 297 times
Valve spring being compressed.JPG
Valve spring being compressed.JPG (107.4 KiB) Viewed 297 times
So that becomes easy. The plan is to remove the valves one at a time, lap the valve, install a new valve stem seal and re-assemble.

If I can find a suitable piece of tubing I'll lap them this way
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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BikeMaine
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Re: Mr.H's new engine

#90

Post by BikeMaine »

That is a wicked cool trick with the tubing.
Kevin
1982 GL1100A
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