Head Job

This Is Strictly For The "How To" Sticky's

Moderator: Whiskerfish

Locked
User avatar
RebelRouser
Webmaster (Retired)
Webmaster (Retired)
Posts: 7198
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:44 pm
My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/rebelrouser/
Location: The Dalles, Or.
Contact:

#31

Post by RebelRouser »

As Long As Your Heads Are Off You Can Rotate The Motor All Day Long To Clean Your Pistons And Cylnders, Just Make Sure You Put It Back To Top Dead Center, Then Rotate It 90 Degres Either Way Before You Reinstall The Heads
If You Didn't Build It, Customize It, And/Or Modify It, Then It Truly Isn't Yours. Rebel Rouser
User avatar
cjflyer
Cast Iron Member
Cast Iron Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:06 pm
Location: Kansas

#32

Post by cjflyer »

Hello and thanks for the great documentation here! I have procured a gl1000 with broken timing belts. After head removal I discovered 3 bent exhaust valves, pistons are ok. My question is: Did you replace the Cam oil seals with new and if so, were the new seals included in the engine gasket kit? If not, do you have a part number or where I can find it. Thanks.
Chad
CJ
76 GL1000 Rehab
81 CB750K
[url=http://img195.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gl1000side.jpg][img]http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6852/gl1000side.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://img12.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1450277.jpg][img]http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7980/1450277.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cmafooterlogo.gif][img]http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6394/cmafooterlogo.gif[/img][/url]
User avatar
RebelRouser
Webmaster (Retired)
Webmaster (Retired)
Posts: 7198
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:44 pm
My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/rebelrouser/
Location: The Dalles, Or.
Contact:

#33

Post by RebelRouser »

Yes I Replaced Them, No They Are Not Included, And Here Are The Numbers 3 Cam Oil Seals # 91209-371-003, And You Can Get Them From crescentmooncycles.com Part Number 15 086
If You Didn't Build It, Customize It, And/Or Modify It, Then It Truly Isn't Yours. Rebel Rouser
User avatar
Hoosier Daddy
True Blue Steel Biker
True Blue Steel Biker
Posts: 2910
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 9:12 pm
Location: N.E. Indiana (Kendallville)

#34

Post by Hoosier Daddy »

One more time in case you thought no one read this anymore...
Thanks for taking the time during the build to take pics to help new guys like me, as well as posting this thread! Much appreciated.
Bulldoged '81 GL1100 "BOMBER!" BUILD THREAD
Bratstyle '80 GS750L "OVERKILL"
Cafe'd '81 CB750C "ROCK-IT"
Basket Case '72 CB450 K5 "NO CLASS"
Resto-Mod '67 BSA Spitfire "STAY CLEAN"

rainstromrider say's I'm "addicted to the build"... I think he might onto something :)
User avatar
kritch
Chrome Member
Chrome Member
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: Atlanta

lapping the valves

#35

Post by kritch »

Ok the only way I have ever seen valves remachined was on a vavle grinder and I have seen that suction cup deally before but, Is there any way we can get some details around the "lapping" of the valves using the tool and the compound?

I suppose that it involves the compound on the seats and the valves and putting the valves back in the guides and using the tool to turn them but, Im not sure. Can you give a couple of lines about that?

While we are at it, I think you mentioned guides being bad. Can you say how you determined that and the method for replacing the guides?

And one last thing. Can you give us a quick guide to how you cleaned the surfaces and pistons+bores?
thanks,
Mitch
Mitchin!

77 GL1000 buffet racer
User avatar
DJ
Billet Alum. Member
Billet Alum. Member
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:21 am
Location: Southern Illinois

#36

Post by DJ »

I never did trust lapping.

When valves get hot, and they get much hotter with a faster temperature change rate than the head or block or valve seats, they get bigger.
They swell more and faster than the seat.
When valves get bigger, they contact the seat with a different diam circle than where they contacted the seat when you lapped them.

The surface you thought you cleaned up while COLD is not likely to be the same surface that contacts the seat when running.
Besides, you are cutting a groove into the already-grooved surface when you really want it flat and straight.

I have also read somewher that the Honda valves had a coating that you do not want to grind through, so NEW valves are the preferred method.
Does anyone have more info on that? I would like to know more.

Because of rocker arm leverage, valve guides wear in a mostly oval pattern. The oval that is rubbed into the valve guide opening at the rocker end of the guide is also most likely to be worn in the opposite direction as the oval opening worn near the other end because of the valve being "pushed" to lean in one direction.
More wear near the rocker end, and less wear as you go closer to the valve-head direction.
The best way to check is not necessarily by wiggling the valve head as most people do, tho that does tell you info. Often, there is more wear to be detected if you wiggle the valve stem at the rocker-end of the valve guide because that is where the rocker pushes and drags the valve stem sideways a tiny bit when it tries to open the valve from a slight angle.

A dial indicator is the best tool to use.

On cars, the way I prefer to recondition guides is to bore them out a bit and use a brass sleeve which is then lightly reamed to a perfectly round shape and sized to the new valve.
Keep in mind that used valves will also have worn spots along the stem that can give them extra wiggle room even if you use new guides new guides, at certain parts of the lifting cycles.

A worn valve in a new guide can encourage fast wear.
A new valve in a worn guide has a somewhat better outcome, but still not as good as starting fresh.
"Some people like to relax in a leather recliner,

but to others there is nothing better than cardboard ...on concrete."
(under a car)

Valvoline commercial.

Please visit the thread on my GL1000 fixup.

http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 084#147084


PHOTO ALBUM ADDRESS-- http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/DJ




.
User avatar
Whiskerfish
President
President
Posts: 35164
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:34 pm
My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/whiskerfish/
Location: Norfolk Va

#37

Post by Whiskerfish »

I have seen some heads that experience really good improvements with a decent lap job and some that saw no improvement at all. Typically if you have been running fouled carbs and the head intake ports are black that means you have a leak past your intake valve and a good lapping can often fix that. I had one low jug on my first 78 when I got it and it gained over 20 psi after lapped. I have the little tool with the suction cups but I seldom use that. I insert the valve into the seat and at the end of the stem I hook up a battery operated drill. Using plenty of compound I run it forward and reverse varying the pressure against the seat. Low rpm and make sure you do not put any lateral loading on the stem with the drill. I have never had a problem doing this but this is probably a high risk method so if you screw it up don't blame me ;)

The valves have a Stellite coating. Some info here in this thread
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic. ... t=stellite
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
User avatar
tehtide
Lead Member
Lead Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:51 pm
Location: Atlanta

#38

Post by tehtide »

One quick question... in the service manual it calls for coating the cylinder block and head surfaces with a liquid sealer. What is acceptable to be used here?

Also... what kind of lubricant do I need, if any, to put on the cam shafts, etc... when they get reinstalled?

BTW... thanks for this wonderful guide.
1977 GL1000
User avatar
Whiskerfish
President
President
Posts: 35164
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:34 pm
My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/whiskerfish/
Location: Norfolk Va

#39

Post by Whiskerfish »

hmm. I always do mine dry.

As for the lube engine oil will be fine. All you are trying to do is provide a few seconds of protection till the pump gets oil flow up there on initial startup.
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
User avatar
Victour
Cast Iron Member
Cast Iron Member
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:47 am
My Album: http://good-times.webshots.com/album/570131144RgmY

#40

Post by Victour »

Just a couple add ones here . The Exhaust valves are the only ones with stellite coating.. I had mine ground because I read somewhere that it is ok to do so.. Lapping the valves will also remove some of the coating.. So I will let you know in about 20 thousand miles if my valves are burned up.. the Main thing is to make sure you Adjust them again later to make sure they are still at .004 thousands... They will burn quick if too tight...

I ordered the Complete engine Gasket Set.. $135.. It does not say a word about seals. so I had to go to Advance Auto parts to get the camshaft seals Beck/Arnley # 052-2755@ $3.99 Ea.
Thanks to the Shop Talk page.. $6.35 Napa price.. $11.00 Honda

I never put a engine together without Lube.. I use Assembly Lube from Permates also from AO

Automotive type engines I used a stp&oil mix 75/25 Never use Stp in a bike with a Wet Clutch... Don't believe me ask a old friend of mine..
1978 Gl1000 LTD

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/570131144RgmYiK
MPTXGL1000
Lead Member
Lead Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:16 pm
Location: Maypearl, TX

#41

Post by MPTXGL1000 »

Thanks for the time spent posting this picture tutorial, it is lots of help as I attempt to freshen up the top end on my '75.
Every minute spent with an old Honda is time well spent.
1975 GL1000, 1977 CB550K, 1985 ATC250ES
User avatar
the chef
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:06 pm
Location: Odenville,Alabama. The land of dixie! (!Hell yeah!!)

#42

Post by the chef »

tehtide wrote:One quick question... in the service manual it calls for coating the cylinder block and head surfaces with a liquid sealer. What is acceptable to be used here?

Also... what kind of lubricant do I need, if any, to put on the cam shafts, etc... when they get reinstalled?

BTW... thanks for this wonderful guide.










I was told that no kind of sealer was needed between the head and block ,,,, I just scrapped the surfaces down real good and clean and bolted it back up with only the new head gasket in between the two. runs very fine.

Upon re-assembly
Just oil up the parts with regular clean 10w 40 .
On the highway to Hell!
Ride on, Ride on.. !
PREVIOUS OLD LOVES=
19?? Zundapp with 6 hp Briggs and Stratton engine Chrome tank
1971 Kawasaki H1 500 blue /white stripe
1975 Honda 750 Yellow
1980 Honda Gl 1100 Interstate Black
1982 Honda Gl 1100 Standard Black
1983 Honda Gl 1100 Aspencade Black
1981 Honda Interstate Black
1981 Honda Gl 500 Silverwing . Candy muse red
1986 Honda VT 500C red
PRESENT RIDE >1976 Honda Gl 1000 Originally red, now flat black, olive drab, primer gray.
User avatar
Victour
Cast Iron Member
Cast Iron Member
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:47 am
My Album: http://good-times.webshots.com/album/570131144RgmY

#43

Post by Victour »

I used the copper coat spray on the Head and cylinder top.. always works for me.. from Advanced or Auto Zone.
1978 Gl1000 LTD

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/570131144RgmYiK
User avatar
vmeyer
Chrome Member
Chrome Member
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:57 pm
Location: Saint Charles Mn

Re: Head Job

#44

Post by vmeyer »

I have to ask. Who is Frenchy? Just so I know where to get affordable parts from when I have to do the job.
User avatar
sunnbobb
Facebook Admin
Facebook Admin
Posts: 21181
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:09 pm
My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/sunnbobb/
Location: LaConner, WA

Re: Head Job

#45

Post by sunnbobb »

Frenchy is the owner of cresent moon cycles and a sponsor of this site. A link to his store can be found on the front page of the website.
Locked

Return to “Octane's Corner”