The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#121

Post by Roady »

You need to use the index mark, not top of the T.

Image

That's from the Valve Adjustment tutorial in ShopTalk.
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#122

Post by Anybox »

Thanks Roady.
I did it right .
Thanks again.
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#123

Post by djgeorgejr »

Thanks for the pictures and instructions. I plan to give this a shot. Great posting.
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#124

Post by Silver Bullet »

Great "How-To" tutorial! Thanks!
It guided me through the first belt change 3200 miles ago.
Time to change them again.
They're overdue.

I'm going to tackle the job tomorrow.

How do you recommend re-checking belt tension on a hot engine
to compensate for expansion?
I neglected this step the first time.

Pulling the hot radiator seems less than "comfortable".

Removing the belt covers while hot with radiator in place will also be tricky.

Will allowing the engine to "cool" below normal operating temp
defeat the purpose of this tension check?

Thanks
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#125

Post by Whiskerfish »

Silver Bullet wrote:Great "How-To" tutorial! Thanks!
It guided me through the first belt change 3200 miles ago.
Time to change them again.
They're overdue.

I'm going to tackle the job tomorrow.

How do you recommend re-checking belt tension on a hot engine
to compensate for expansion?
I neglected this step the first time.

Pulling the hot radiator seems less than "comfortable".

Removing the belt covers while hot with radiator in place will also be tricky.

Will allowing the engine to "cool" below normal operating temp
defeat the purpose of this tension check?

Thanks
Engines are built cold at the factory and that is good enough for me.
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#126

Post by Silver Bullet »

Good point about the cold factory engines.
I'm thinking along the same lines.

The belts worked like a charm for three years
with just the "cold" tension check.

This time they're going to get the added benefit
of "equal" tension with the Right Side 360 degree adjustment.

I'm fine with that.
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#127

Post by macswing »

I probably missed it somewhere in this thread but what sort of mileage is the change recommended at?
Last owner had the done at dealer at 29,000 and has now turned over 36000
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#128

Post by Hoosier Daddy »

Good question on the milage, but there is more to it than that. How long ago did the PO have them changed? If they were replaced 20 years ago, even if they only had a 1,000 miles on since, I'd be replacing them.
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#129

Post by macswing »

ok thanks, i just asked and he seems to think about 12 months, this guy owns it for the 2nd time has bought the bike back from his friend who had the belts done but also who hardly rode it at all.

Think I may do them anyway if only to get to know a little about the bike

Mac
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#130

Post by mkurup »

Thank you Octane. I tackled this on my 1984 GL1200 standard this Saturday, and this post made me very confident during the belt change. I feel much better about having changed the original equipment, and have the satisfaction of having done it myself.

Take care!

Mohan
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#131

Post by obed_ned »

I replaced my 30-yr old belts over the weekend using Octane's excellent 'how-to'. Everything went really well- I took my 'new-to-me' bike out today for the first ride since I rode her home ( from my neighbor's house about a quarter mile). SWEET!!!
Still have the 30-yr old tires so max speed was around 25. Tomorrow she goes to get her new rubber. Just a couple of suggestions when doing the belts-
Before you take anything apart check out the way it is already put together. Check the tension of the belt on the tensioner side AND the tension on the other side. That way you have general idea of what you should have when you've done the replacement. With all the marks lined up and the new belts on I had the belts one tooth off on the non-tensioner side (too loose). When I tried to tighten it the belt just kept skipping teeth.
I ended up putting the new belt on (all timing marks lined up of course), clamping the belt to the cam sprocket with Vicegrips ( just tight enough to keep the belt from slipping a tooth). Mount the tensioner w/ spring but with loose bolts. Grab the belt on the non-tensioner side with pliers and force it over the crank sprocket so that the next tooth catches. Hold the belt on the crank sprocket to keep it from slipping then slide the belt up over the tensioner pulley. Tighten the tensioner bolts. This will give you the proper tension. I think the cam sprocket moved a little when I pushed the belt with the pliers but after I turned the engine over with the generator bolt by hand several times everything was lined up.
I'm a newbie so if this is bs let me know but it worked for me- the bike fired right up and like I said I had my first ride this AM.
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#132

Post by Old Fogey »

You did your belts using Octanes Instructions?.
Where in those instructions do you see any mention of clamping belts, forcing belts, gripping belts with pliers???

None of that is necessary in any way; quite the opposite in fact. Although belts are extremely tough in doing their job, they need to be handled with care until they are in position to do that job. Fitting them in the way you have done could very well have drastically shortened their life.

Sorry if this all sounds brutal but please; anyone contemplating a belt change, read through that thread until you understand it and if the job is not going to plan, come back here and ask. That's what this forum is all about.
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#133

Post by obed_ned »

Again, I'm I newbie so I'm sure you are correct. BUT- I read through Octane's instructions at least ten times before attempting this. AS I said in my post, the problem I had was getting the tension on the non-tensioner side tight enough. And, despite what you said, what I did worked very well. I did nothing that will reduced the life of the belt as the visegrip was only tight enough to keep the tooth from slipping. The bike runs great now. You really do sound like a grumpy old fart!
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#134

Post by Whiskerfish »

obed_ned wrote: You really do sound like a grumpy old fart!
Yes he can be but he means it in a good way. The core of these belts are fiberglass. That is what gives them their strength and prevents them from stretching. Clamping or crimping them in any way can and will break the inner core and reduce their life.
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#135

Post by obed_ned »

That's all well and good but I still stand behind my statement that I did nothing that would compromise the belt. And I still stand behind my statement that Octane's instructions are excellent and there is no way I could have done the job without them. Thank you, Octane. Again, the problem I was having was that on the non-tensioner side I could not get the belt tight enough. It was one tooth off- too loose. No matter what I did the belt would slip on one of the sprockets when I tried to get the correct tension with all the cam and crank marks lined up. So it was either VERY GENTLY clamp the belt to the cam sprocket- then take a pair of pliers and GENTLY PUSH the belt towards the crank sprocket- just a little push was enough for the tooth on the belt to click into place- or put the belt on with the timing marks off. I tried putting the belt on as tight as I could on the non-tensioner side, trying to hold it in place, then putting in the tensioner. It always slipped off one tooth on the non-tensioner side. If I tried putting the belt on one tooth off and installing the tensioner loosely the belt wae too tight to move it over a tooth. The T-1, crank, and both cam sprockets were aligned correctly but the belt could not be put on the non-tensioner side tight enough.

Any suggestions as to what was going on are welcome. These were Gates belts, the bike had 7663 miles on it and the belts I took off were the original Honda ones.
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