The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#136

Post by Cookie »

Actually the way I do that is to take a half inch bar and put on a socket that just fits the cam pulley holes. Put it in a hole in one side and take a deep socket that fits a pulley hole and use it as a fulcrum. Then you can easily turn the pulley to align it with one hand while guiding the belt on with the other. If I did it all the time I'd either make a tool that locked the cam in time or a permanent lever bar. I've only done three and will probably only do two more so it is not worth the time to make a permanent tool.
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#137

Post by obed_ned »

Post inappropriate, Deleted by Admin.
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#138

Post by obed_ned »

8>] !!
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#139

Post by Old Fogey »

From the 'grumpy old fart'!

Yeah, I guess I can be, but it was never my intention to cause offence to obed_ned, nor to initiate a running battle with anyone who has the balls to get stuck in and try doing the work on their own bike. Anyone attempting this, especially doing jobs they have not done before, has my admiration.

I realise that my post was worded strongly, and perhaps tactlessly for which I totally and unreservedly apologise!

Reading back through it, it could and should have been put better but my initial reaction was to prevent anyone else doing the same. I have seen too many instances during my 40 odd years of mechanicing of belt failure and the destruction that it can cause. It would surprise most folk at how little it takes to invisibly ruin a belt.
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#140

Post by obed_ned »

My apologies as well- I'll buy you a pint next chance I get. As I PM'd Whiskerfish, I ran into something 'outside the box' of Octane's instructions. And if you go to classicgoldwings.com a lot of people are ending up with mistimed cams after following his instructions. Something is causing this- I don't think these people were unable to follow the instructions, and I don't think the instructions are faulty. I am going to post some pictures of what I ran into, and also some of what I think is cause these others to mistime their cams. Peace!
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Here is my belt replacement problem- w/ picts, diagrams, etc

#141

Post by obed_ned »

Here is my original post-
'I replaced my 30-yr old belts over the weekend using Octane's excellent 'how-to'. Everything went really well- I took my 'new-to-me' bike out today for the first ride since I rode her home ( from my neighbor's house about a quarter mile). SWEET!!!
Still have the 30-yr old tires so max speed was around 25. Tomorrow she goes to get her new rubber. Just a couple of suggestions when doing the belts-
Before you take anything apart check out the way it is already put together. Check the tension of the belt on the tensioner side AND the tension on the other side. That way you have general idea of what you should have when you've done the replacement. With all the marks lined up and the new belts on I had the belts one tooth off on the non-tensioner side (too loose). When I tried to tighten it the belt just kept skipping teeth.
I ended up putting the new belt on (all timing marks lined up of course), clamping the belt to the cam sprocket with Vicegrips ( just tight enough to keep the belt from slipping a tooth). Mount the tensioner w/ spring but with loose bolts. Grab the belt on the non-tensioner side with pliers and force it over the crank sprocket so that the next tooth catches. Hold the belt on the crank sprocket to keep it from slipping then slide the belt up over the tensioner pulley. Tighten the tensioner bolts. This will give you the proper tension. I think the cam sprocket moved a little when I pushed the belt with the pliers but after I turned the engine over with the generator bolt by hand several times everything was lined up.
I'm a newbie so if this is bs let me know but it worked for me- the bike fired right up and like I said I had my first ride this AM.'

This is the most important thing you can do- IMHO-
'Before you take anything apart check out the way it is already put together. Check the tension of the belt on the tensioner side AND the tension on the other side. That way you have general idea of what you should have when you've done the replacement.'

Here's what I ran into:
'With all the marks lined up and the new belts on I had the belts one tooth off on the non-tensioner side (too loose). When I tried to tighten it the belt just kept skipping teeth.'

This is what I had:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9954/camtiming1.jpg

If I had backed the belt off this is what I would have had:

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/4062/camtiming2.jpg

This is what I used to pushed the belt over to the correct timing-

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4940/camtiming3.jpg

OK- NOW- THE QUESTION IS- IS THE NEW BELT TOO SHORT (TIGHT) ? OR- HAS THE OLD BELT STRETCHED AND IS TOO LONG (LOOSE) ?

And if you say I'm just doing it wrong the top of my head is going to explode and take out half the neighborhood !?!?!?!

Octane- Can you give me some much needed help? Thanks!
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#142

Post by Whiskerfish »

Octane is not around much anymore but...
I have changed probably 20 sets of belts and I can tell you that setting the belts takes some trail and error. It is not uncommon for them to be off a tooth or more on the first go around. It is not really a big deal and that is why it is strongly recommended to rotate the engine through and verify proper alignment several times prior to buttoning up.

For the # 1 and # 3 side I do not restrain the cam when I remove the old belt. I just let it go. It will rotate close to 90 degrees before it comes to rest. I have never had a problem with this. When I am ready to install the new belt I position it using a box end wrench and rotating it counterclockwise back to proper alignment, hold it with one hand and install the belt with the other. The other side usually does not move much at all. Many times if something moves it will be the crankshaft as the process of tugging the belts into position over the tensioners will cause it to move. Again it is not as problem if the proper checks are done.

One thing I have noticed is many guys get down on one knee and look at the alignment. You need to look straight on that means your eyeballs need to be level with the engine. That is almost lying on the floor. Leaning around from the side and eyeballing the alignment is a sure way to fail. Reposition to the front of the bike and get down low. Triple check the Crank has not moved. Again here you need to be looking Straight at the timing access. That means your line of sight should be limited on the top by the bottom edge of the Left Hand shelter.
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Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#143

Post by obed_ned »

Yes, Wiskerfish, lying on the the ground looking at the timing marks is a real PITAss- and I did it each time-
over and over and over again trying to get it right.....I'm not concerned about whether I'm right or wrong- like I said- Something isn't right and I'm trying to get it right for the other guy...
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Re: The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

#144

Post by obed_ned »

Yes, Wiskerfish, lying on the the ground looking at the timing marks is a real PITAss- and I did it each time-
over and over and over again trying to get it right.....I'm not concerned about whether I'm right or wrong- like I said- Something isn't right and I'm trying to get it right for the other guy...
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