11 out of 10

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BiKenG
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11 out of 10

#1

Post by BiKenG »

Or more precisely, 1100 or 1000. Here’s the thing:

I have a complete 1100 and a 1000 frame and a 1200 motor (NO timing case on the rear). What would be the best build? I’ll put together a second bike from what’s left, but that’s of secondary importance. What would be the best combination?

As far as I’m concerned, that means the 1200 motor, but whether to fit that in the 1000 or the 1100 frame is really the question. Either can be done, but probably a bit easier into the 1100 frame. However, that would leave the 1100 engine to go into the 1000 frame which would require some adjustment of the cross tube to clear the 1100’s timing case/cover.

I was advised elsewhere that the 1100 handles better than the 1000, although the frame is undoubtedly heavier. Is the 1100 better in this regard? Ignore any front fork comparisons as I’ll be changing them anyway. So I’m just after opinions on the respective handling capabilities of these 2 frames.

Would the resulting bike be larger, smaller, lighter, heavier, longer, shorter etc. Into which frame should I install the 1200 motor? I’d appreciate other’s opinions on this to help me make up my own mind.
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robin1731
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Re: 11 out of 10

#2

Post by robin1731 »

What do you want the bike to do? Daily rider? Highway cruiser? Hot Rod?

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Re: 11 out of 10

#3

Post by BiKenG »

Well something bobber-ish, just for fun and certainly not a daily driver. I am looking into gearing to get top as high as I can for relaxed cruising at any speed, as long as I can take off in first. Everything in between is irrelevant as it's just a function of what gear you're in. Anyway, I can play around with other ideas for that, but really it's how does the 1000 chassis ride compared to the 1100.

A 1000 based machine will be shorter than an 1100. Even if both were fitted with a 1200 S/A but that may not be obvious when riding. Or is it?

Apart from a couple of Valkyries I've had, I last rode an actual Wing back when the 1100 was current so would be interested to hear from those who've more recently ridden or played with these models.
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robin1731
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Re: 11 out of 10

#4

Post by robin1731 »

If you want good cruising/highway rpm the 1200 with a 1000 final drive is not the way to go.

I've ridden 1000's and 1100's. Not enough difference to matter if you already have one or the other.

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1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
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1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
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Re: 11 out of 10

#5

Post by BiKenG »

robin1731 wrote:If you want good cruising/highway rpm the 1200 with a 1000 final drive is not the way to go.
Agreed. There's no way I'll be using a 1000 FDU. With the 1200 engine I'll be using either a 1200 or 1500 FDU depending on whether I'd be able to fit a 1500 wheel to the 1200 FDU (subject of another thread).
I've ridden 1000's and 1100's. Not enough difference to matter if you already have one or the other.
Interesting. I just did a quick comparison and surprisingly, it looks like the 1200 is actually the shortest frame:-
GLengths.jpeg
GLengths.jpeg (47.89 KiB) Viewed 429 times
That does of course ignore any difference due to the forks (rake, trail etc).

However, although I like the idea of a slightly longer S/A, using the 1000 frame with 1200 motor, S/A and FDU is looking favourite at the moment.

Anyone any idea of the actual weights of the different frames?
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CYBORG
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Re: 11 out of 10

#6

Post by CYBORG »

BiKenG wrote:
robin1731 wrote:If you want good cruising/highway rpm the 1200 with a 1000 final drive is not the way to go.
Agreed. There's no way I'll be using a 1000 FDU. With the 1200 engine I'll be using either a 1200 or 1500 FDU depending on whether I'd be able to fit a 1500 wheel to the 1200 FDU (subject of another thread).
I've ridden 1000's and 1100's. Not enough difference to matter if you already have one or the other.
Interesting. I just did a quick comparison and surprisingly, it looks like the 1200 is actually the shortest frame:-

GLengths.jpeg
That does of course ignore any difference due to the forks (rake, trail etc).

However, although I like the idea of a slightly longer S/A, using the 1000 frame with 1200 motor, S/A and FDU is looking favourite at the moment.

Anyone any idea of the actual weights of the different frames?
Been following along with this imaginary bike build, and am wondering what you call a good highway RPM, and speed ? I have a 1000 frame with a 1200 engine, and 1000 FDU, and I find it very comfortable on the highway. At 70-75 MPH
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Re: 11 out of 10

#7

Post by CYBORG »

AND it has a mono shock rear suspension, and a 1200 front suspension
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Re: 11 out of 10

#8

Post by BiKenG »

Yes mono-shock is what I'm planning also. CYBORG, how did you do yours? How is it attached to the S/A and the frame? I figured the tank would be in the way so I was considering a conventional tank and freeing up space for the shock. I'm interested in everyone else's approach to this.

Regarding gearing, I am aware of what you use but I like to keep the rpm low. It's the way I like to ride and certainly for top gear riding, the lower the better as far as I'm concerned. If I need something lower at any time, I can just change gear, that's what the gearbox is for, but there ain't nothin' higher than top.

I was wondering whether the 1000 secondary reduction gears can be installed into an 1100 or 1200 engine. I realise it would be a big job, but if I run out of other projects one day, I might consider it. :)

BTW, it's not imaginary. I have everything in my workshop. It's just deciding what to bolt to what.
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Re: 11 out of 10

#9

Post by CYBORG »

I'm sure you will figure it out one day. Would love to see pictures when you do
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Re: 11 out of 10

#10

Post by BiKenG »

Still pondering this. I've read about a couple of handling issues with 1000s that weave at speed and I've heard it said (by Honda employee) that they got the handling right with the 1100, implying it wasn't with the 1000. However, the 1100 had fatter forks and that would definitely have had a positive impact. So was it just the fork change that allowed the 1100 to handle better?

I've been looking at the front of the 1000 and 1100 frames and it can be readily seen that the lower frame tubes on the 1000 are welded quite high up the headstock, effectively providing less support than on the 1100 where those lower tubes are welded lower down on the headstock. Maybe this is the reason? Maybe both factors?

Has anyone tried bracing the lower end of a 1000's headstock to the lower frame tubes? Did it improve handing?

Also, has anyone actually weighed the different frames to establish a true comparison? There's much talk about the 1000 (frame) being lighter, but was it? By how much? Some actual real hard data would be good to have.
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Re: 11 out of 10

#11

Post by ericheath »

The 1000 weighed 584-601 lbs stock. The 1200D in my manual lists it at 701 lbs. It was bagged and faired. Googling it and several sites report that a standard was only 600lbs. A few months ago someone posted the 1200 was in the 750-800 pound range, but that was the Fairing bikes. So with bigger forks, a longer beefier swingarm, bigger rims, bigger motor,—-if it’s only 16 lbs more, it’s a pretty light bike.

The 1200 had considerably taller gearing for lower rpm cruising and produced good mpg.

I had the 1200 into a stock 1000 frame with the 3.40:1 final drive. Even with an 18” rear tire it was geared pretty low and almost jerky to handle at lower speeds, for me. I’m not a real experienced rider. Now I have a 1200 swingarm with a 1500, 2.83:1 final drive, same as 1200.

The 1100 would put you right in the middle of the two builds with a 3.10:1 final drive. It might be pretty good with a 1200 powerplant. It has the longer swingarm too. The 83 model had a decent rim on it too.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
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Re: 11 out of 10

#12

Post by JamesPal »

The 1100 shocks, front and rear were an improvement over the 1000. It 1980 everyone was talking about fork stiction. The new bikes in that era had teflon bushings in the sliders. One of my friends had a new '76 1000. When he rode my 1100 all he could talk about was the forks. He wanted them.
I don't believe the manufacturer's weight claims. The Goldwings weight grew throughout the evolution of the four cylinder Goldwings. Honda made an effort in 1980 to make the standard model close to the original '75. I remember Honda claiming the '80 Standard was a few pounds lighter than the '75. Weight was a problem at the time because the tires did not have the ratings for the bike GVW limit. There were several accidents due to tire failure where loaded Goldwing were out in the desert and the rear tire failed due to high heat. I remember one of the bike magazines writing about this and recommended the Goldwing guys over pressure the rear tire to 40 PSI. Today's tires are better.
I wound up riding that '76 a lot, I have put 50,000 miles on my '81 and I have about 2,000 miles on the '85 Interstate. The '76 was a mid 70s bike, a little rough around the edges. The '81 was a tad quicker and smoother than the '76. The '85 is a pig. Just like Goldie Locks says, I think the '81 is just right.
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Re: 11 out of 10

#13

Post by BiKenG »

Just to point out that final drive gearing is an irrelevance in this decision as that can be changed as required, albeit with some work maybe to fit a different Swing-Arm in order to be able to use a different Final Drive Unit. My query only concerned which actual frame would be best to use for which engine and for a number of reasons I have decided to keep the 1100 motor in the 1100 chassis (but with 1200 wheels) and have just obtained a 1200 frame for the 1200 motor.

The simplicity of this arrangement now allows me to concentrate on styling and other mods for the 1200 like single shock and conventional fuel tank and, well, the rest of the bike basically. :)
Ken
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Re: 11 out of 10

#14

Post by rcmatt007 »

silly question.... but what does FDU stand for?
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Re: 11 out of 10

#15

Post by ericheath »

Final Drive Unit
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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