Schizoid, Power Arc, cam advance,

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Buli
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Re: Schizoid, Power Arc, cam advance,

#361

Post by Buli »

Really nice :)
Kinde
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Easter
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Re: Schizoid, Power Arc, cam advance,

#362

Post by Easter »

Looks good, hope it last longer than bike tires.
Bikes at present:

83 XL 600r with a 2004 XR650L engine
And a slightly worse for the wear BMW GS adventure bike awaiting repair
83 GL in process :IDTS:
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ericheath
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Re: Schizoid, Power Arc, cam advance,

#363

Post by ericheath »

I should contact Avon about them. That’s really poor.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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Re: Schizoid, Power Arc, cam advance,

#364

Post by ericheath »

Tired of paying for premium gas, —-partly— I decided to put the 1200 heads on to compare them. Now of course I got a little side tracked (okay a lot side tracked) seeing if the early year cams would work in the 1200 head. Long story short: I hammer forged a few valves on that experiment. So currently I have 85 cams in 87 heads on an 87 block. (84-85 cams have more overlap) I’ve only had a few rides. I have been chasing issues on number one cylinder for ten days. Figured it was idle jet, nope. Missing oring under the cutoff valve? Nope. Pretty much had given up and was hoping someone would take my wrenches away. I figured it was also using 764a carbs going into 2-3mm smaller ports at the head. Some of it could still be that. I took a break and spent a week laying pavers and cleaning up the backyard a bit. Visited the grandkids for a while. Today, I was cleaning the garage (something I must do more often) and I came across this:
2147277D-642E-4625-B550-2EFC0440EE39.jpeg
2147277D-642E-4625-B550-2EFC0440EE39.jpeg (305.67 KiB) Viewed 155 times
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, ya think?

05B62E52-6E0E-4C5D-A515-9320FDAD2AF6.jpeg
05B62E52-6E0E-4C5D-A515-9320FDAD2AF6.jpeg (171.98 KiB) Viewed 155 times
Peek-a-boo. Yup. All better!

So, what did the butt dyno tell me?? I think they’re pretty much a draw. IMHO the only possible advantage to early heads and cams is if they bring more juice (horsepower) at higher rpm. With the right carbs and elbows????? Hoping I have a few warm days in October to try it more and compare fuel mileage.

I am pretty convinced that the 1200 has all the lift the early years have. I think the 1200 has quite a bit more lift on the exhaust.

If you could get the 1000 or 1100 cams to work, the lift would be about 2mm higher, but with the 5 degrees BTDC intake and ATDC exhaust and with 1200 pistons which come up higher into the head, I don’t see how it could be done without spending some money.

The other factor not mentioned in the “Great 1000 vs 1200 cam debate” is that the centers of the rocker arm spindles are closer together on the 1200. 8-9mm closer. This pic shows the huge difference in rocker arms.
E83420DE-75CE-49B7-9BE2-5B8B2B1F95B8.jpeg
E83420DE-75CE-49B7-9BE2-5B8B2B1F95B8.jpeg (227.95 KiB) Viewed 155 times
I was able to use the 1000 cam carrier with the 1200 rocker arms mounted to the 1200 block and clearance the valve reliefs on the exhaust side enough to turn over with no interference, but the closer spacing of the 1200 spindles still made contact.

I had it running with 75 cams and cb750 valve springs in it, but poorly. And the crazy thing was: to have the right side turn over and make compression the cam pulley had to be advanced two full teeth. But the left side only worked on the stock timing mark. I even tried it 180 out and everything in between. When I first installed them, I checked compression. 150psi on the left, 90 on the right? ???Advanced right cam one tooth and it went up to 120. Two teeth and they were equal. ( stock valve springs will bind, so custom springs would have to be sourced)

Maybe sinking the valves in the head would help enough to pull it off. After spending all the dough to do that, would it help?? Looking at the profiles, I think the 1000 cam in the 1200 head would be opening a lot sooner and closing a lot later. That might help at higher rpm, but with hydraulic adjusters, how high do you dare push it? When I went to synchronize the carbs with the 75 cams installed, the synchronizer ports were pushing lots of air back out the openings. Way more than stock, so reversion must be pretty high.

Maybe the boost that a lot of people are feeling who put 1000 heads on 1200’s is because they’re putting the combination into a lighter bike.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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Easter
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Re: Schizoid, Power Arc, cam advance,

#365

Post by Easter »

Glad someone has the time and skills to sort this all out. Thanks for the report.
Bikes at present:

83 XL 600r with a 2004 XR650L engine
And a slightly worse for the wear BMW GS adventure bike awaiting repair
83 GL in process :IDTS:
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HOTT
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Re: Schizoid, Power Arc, cam advance,

#366

Post by HOTT »

Super interesting collection of info Eric :orange
Appreciate you sharing the breakdown of details.

HOTT (and of course the photos)
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ericheath
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Re: Schizoid, Power Arc, cam advance,

#367

Post by ericheath »

Hammer forged piston:
EDB6BB00-FBA4-4EE9-8156-E34E3466A473.jpeg
EDB6BB00-FBA4-4EE9-8156-E34E3466A473.jpeg (188.8 KiB) Viewed 131 times
Valve
FDB80425-E5CA-49EE-99EA-085971B05894.jpeg
FDB80425-E5CA-49EE-99EA-085971B05894.jpeg (219.03 KiB) Viewed 131 times
Working on my V65 carbs mounted to a 1200 plenum again. I keep getting leaks at the fuel joints. That will let me run intake runners and head ports that match in size.

I confess my lack of understanding of how the hydraulic adjusters work. When I gave up on the75 cams and installed the 1200 cams, I buttoned it all up, hit the starter and was shocked. It just turned over like no compression at all. I figured I’d finished this one off for good. Got my compression tester out, zero on #2, zero on #3, zero on #1, no wait, it’s got 30psi. Cranked more and it went up 60- 90-120-150psi. Phew!!!!! It takes a little cranking to refill the adjusters. You have no idea how glad I was of that!

In the piston pic you can see I probably have taken too much out. The ringlands don’t have a lot of aluminum left between it and the combustion chamber.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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