Opened Up the Puch Today
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- CYBORG
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- Location: Muskegon mich
Re: Opened Up the Puch Today
I agree. Bondo , to me , is for cosmetice repairs. That frame needs more then that. Even if you never ride it. Some day someone might.
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
- Dr. Frankenstein
- Silver Member
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- Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:22 am
- Location: Charlottesville, VA
Re: Opened Up the Puch Today
The Bondo is mostly just to keep any further water from getting in - not like it's going to be outside anymore. I would think that structurally it's still pretty stable, having the crack running lengthwise rather than perpendicular to it. That crack is only about 2 or 3 mmm wide. That being said, how would you fix it? Weld a steel plate over it?
- CYBORG
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Re: Opened Up the Puch Today
No wider then that, I would just run a bead of weld along it. If it is indeed a crack
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
- CYBORG
- Moderator
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- Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:52 pm
- Location: Muskegon mich
Re: Opened Up the Puch Today
Looking again at the picture, it look like it is two pieces that were welded in the first place. Welding the crack would be my fix. Just be careful not to over heat the frame.
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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- Cast Iron Member
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:33 pm
Re: Opened Up the Puch Today
ditto. would saddle it and bolt/nut to original frame. then WELD the crack. i would also sleeve the battery box after blasting.
- flyin900
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Re: Opened Up the Puch Today
Regarding your question on the stripper materials, they have all changed chemical compounds now with tighter regs from the powers that be, so no more really nasty chemicals.
I use a glass bead blaster guy for big stuff like that, he works cheap and for cash. I also have a portable glass bead blaster for outside work and a small cabinet blaster for items such as brackets and brake calipers etc.
I use a glass bead blaster guy for big stuff like that, he works cheap and for cash. I also have a portable glass bead blaster for outside work and a small cabinet blaster for items such as brackets and brake calipers etc.
Current Bikes:
1966 CL77 - Honda 305cc - Dual purpose - "Gentleman's Scrambler" was a period moniker.
1967 CL175K0 - Low production number with #802 engine serial- winter 2019/2020 full restoration.
1972 CB350F - Baby Four with low mileage - Cosmetic refresh to the next level 2021/2022.
1978 CB550K - Very original bike with only 7499 Km. from new - light cleanup and refresh done.
1983 CB1100F - Canadian model - DOHC Supersport in pristine low kilometre condition from new.
1984 GL1200 - Standard model in showroom condition - two owner bike from new.
1984 CX650E - Restored summer 2017 - a rare Eurosport model - excellent one owner bike.
1966 CL77 - Honda 305cc - Dual purpose - "Gentleman's Scrambler" was a period moniker.
1967 CL175K0 - Low production number with #802 engine serial- winter 2019/2020 full restoration.
1972 CB350F - Baby Four with low mileage - Cosmetic refresh to the next level 2021/2022.
1978 CB550K - Very original bike with only 7499 Km. from new - light cleanup and refresh done.
1983 CB1100F - Canadian model - DOHC Supersport in pristine low kilometre condition from new.
1984 GL1200 - Standard model in showroom condition - two owner bike from new.
1984 CX650E - Restored summer 2017 - a rare Eurosport model - excellent one owner bike.
- Dr. Frankenstein
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- Location: Charlottesville, VA
Re: Opened Up the Puch Today
I finally got around to going a little deeper today; I so far have taken it all apart, primed it and painted what parts I could and it at least Looks a little better now; but I turned my attention to the engine today and thought you might like to see how simple it is inside - the crank looks beautiful! Now if I can just get the dang pistons out of the head! I've tried everything I can think of to get that frozen front piston out; my plan is to take out the crank with the head and try to (1) use a grease gun on the pistons, or (2) press it out with my shop press
But look at that - eight simple gears drive this thing:
Check out the oil pump - still has the original safety wire through the bolts. I had to cut it to get the pump off, but inside the bearing housing on the left here there's a worm drive that the oil pump gear operates with. I'm thinking I should just be able to tap out the crankshaft here through the bearing, but a few tentative taps didn't get it to budge; I can't remember how I did my first one, but I'm not sure I want to go to town on the end of the crankshaft. Ideas??
Here's an interesting view of the gear selector...
- pidjones
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Re: Opened Up the Puch Today
So many of those old Allstates around still - often still running! My buddy had one in High School. I have seen quite a few at vintage bike shows, too. Don't spend too much $$ on it, but beat around all you want. If still looking for parts next summer/fall, attend Mid-Ohio and Barber Vintage festivals.
Last edited by pidjones on Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Love 'em all.... let God sort 'em out!"
Ex 2006 GL1800 - the Black Pearl SOLD! to make room for:
2021 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited Dark Chalk Metallic
1975 Red GL1000 project - ex Pistol Pete project
1972 Triumph T150V Trident rescue - finished and FOR SALE!
1976 Yamaha RD400c
1978 GL1000 with '75 engine - the Hunley
Ex 1978 GL1000
Ex 1979 GL1000
Ex '79 CB750F rat bike
Ex '86 SEi
Ex '77 GL1000
Ex '76 RD400
Ex '72 Penton 125 set up for flat track
Ex '73 RD250
Ex '68 TR6C - chopped
Ex 2006 GL1800 - the Black Pearl SOLD! to make room for:
2021 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited Dark Chalk Metallic
1975 Red GL1000 project - ex Pistol Pete project
1972 Triumph T150V Trident rescue - finished and FOR SALE!
1976 Yamaha RD400c
1978 GL1000 with '75 engine - the Hunley
Ex 1978 GL1000
Ex 1979 GL1000
Ex '79 CB750F rat bike
Ex '86 SEi
Ex '77 GL1000
Ex '76 RD400
Ex '72 Penton 125 set up for flat track
Ex '73 RD250
Ex '68 TR6C - chopped
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- Silver Member
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Re: Opened Up the Puch Today
Did Sears not import whatever brand they could contract for at any given time and call them all "Allstate"? Hard to get the right parts unless you do a bit of research.
- Dr. Frankenstein
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Re: Opened Up the Puch Today
The Sears Allstate 250 and 175 are the exact same bike, made by Puch in Austria and just rebadged with some slight differences, like the handlebars. The guts for the 175 and 250 are still the same though, and I have both the repair and parts manual for the 250. Puch also made the DS50 and 60, two little scooters sold under the Allstate name as the Cheetah.
Matt Quirk at Motorwest in Wisconsin has the ONLY store in North America that caters to these machines, but he's selling it because of health problems, so if anybody has a line on one of these machines in 'whatever' shape, please let me know. RBO in Germany is an overseas source, but that can get pricy.
Matt Quirk at Motorwest in Wisconsin has the ONLY store in North America that caters to these machines, but he's selling it because of health problems, so if anybody has a line on one of these machines in 'whatever' shape, please let me know. RBO in Germany is an overseas source, but that can get pricy.
- Dr. Frankenstein
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Re: Opened Up the Puch Today
I got the crank out, finally. But this is interesting - it looks a little 'burned' - I've never seen a crank look like that; like excessive heat blued it a bit. Maybe when the PO used regular oil instead of 2-stroke oil...? Caused when the pistons locked up?
The gears look okay; just a lot of sticky old oil. They should clean up okay. The shape of the crank and head won't let me put it on my 12-ton press so I'm still waiting for some M14x1.25 zerk fittings I found online; I'm going to screw those in and use a grease gun to try to get the pistons out, God knows I've tried everything else. I'm trying to 'save' the frozen front piston, or at least get it out of there with as minimal damage as possible to the bore, but I won't be able to use it anyway so am considering an air hammer to break it up; I'll probably save that for last.
The gears look okay; just a lot of sticky old oil. They should clean up okay. The shape of the crank and head won't let me put it on my 12-ton press so I'm still waiting for some M14x1.25 zerk fittings I found online; I'm going to screw those in and use a grease gun to try to get the pistons out, God knows I've tried everything else. I'm trying to 'save' the frozen front piston, or at least get it out of there with as minimal damage as possible to the bore, but I won't be able to use it anyway so am considering an air hammer to break it up; I'll probably save that for last.
- Dr. Frankenstein
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Re: Opened Up the Puch Today - It's Toast
Well, I finally managed to get the stuck front piston out - it's toast. As well as the rod. I finally threw in the towel and took it to a proper machine shop where we used a decent hydraulic press to finally get the piston out, but not without some damage. The first drift punched a hole right through the piston crown and pushed out the rod, and I used a wider one to finally push out the remnants of the piston head:
I don't think I was the one to bend the rod, I noticed that slight curve before, when it was on the bench. I think that happened when the PO used regular motor oil in it way back when instead of 2-stroke oil, causing it to seize. And looking at the damaged piston, there was no way anything I did to try to get the piston out (diesel fuel, ATF and gasoline, heat, etc.) was going to make it budge.
Here's another good Owie - this is what happens when you try to pound out the stuck piston with a sledge and miss - makes me sick... On the other hand, the cylinder bore looks scarred beyond repair, so a rebore would have to be done if I wanted to try to bring this back - but Nah. Pass the butter, this engine is Toast! I suppose somewhere down the line I could either replace the crank and pistons, but I'd still have to find a new head, or try to repair the cast-iron fins. It's a shame, too; I did a lot of work on this thing.
(Anybody got a 1968 Puch 250 they don't want??)
On the plus side, my friend who runs the machine shop is simply giving me a Suzuki GS850G and a parts bike, so - silver lining??
No biggie, as I was going to replace the pistons anyway, but then we saw the rod was bent. That sucker was Stuck! I don't think I was the one to bend the rod, I noticed that slight curve before, when it was on the bench. I think that happened when the PO used regular motor oil in it way back when instead of 2-stroke oil, causing it to seize. And looking at the damaged piston, there was no way anything I did to try to get the piston out (diesel fuel, ATF and gasoline, heat, etc.) was going to make it budge.
Here's another good Owie - this is what happens when you try to pound out the stuck piston with a sledge and miss - makes me sick... On the other hand, the cylinder bore looks scarred beyond repair, so a rebore would have to be done if I wanted to try to bring this back - but Nah. Pass the butter, this engine is Toast! I suppose somewhere down the line I could either replace the crank and pistons, but I'd still have to find a new head, or try to repair the cast-iron fins. It's a shame, too; I did a lot of work on this thing.
(Anybody got a 1968 Puch 250 they don't want??)
On the plus side, my friend who runs the machine shop is simply giving me a Suzuki GS850G and a parts bike, so - silver lining??
- Old Fogey
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Re: Opened Up the Puch Today
My first thought too!dontwantapickle wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:18 pm Repairing a cracked frame with bondo. That's an "interesting" approach.
I'm not so sure that I would do it that way, but then... I ain't going to be the one riding it.
"Impossible Is Just a Level of Difficulty!..."
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous!
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous!
- Dr. Frankenstein
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Re: Opened Up the Puch Today
Meh - doesn't matter anymore. The frame has that crack in it, the rear wheel is locked up nice and tight, probably rusted to the brakes because I can't get the hub off and can't break it loose even with rocking it, some engine fins are broken, the pistons are shot ($200 for a set of new ones), the rear shocks -which can only be removed by taking out a tiny slotted locking pin that is rusted in place to get them off the mounting bolt - are frozen; I tried drilling it out but No Joy there, not to mention that one of the welded shock mounting bushings was so rusted it broke in half when I tried to get the shock off; a lot of the rear suspension bolts are rust-eaten, and a new used engine is around $400 - I'll probably just sell it as a parts bike if I can. If not, well, I have a parts bike for my runner. I'm only into it for the disassembly time and a coat of paint. Too bad, too, it was coming along nicely.
- ritalz
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Re: Opened Up the Puch Today
For all the problems you have run into and little $$ invested, I think throwing in the towel is the best way to go. You could probably sell some parts and make a few bucks.
Al
2003 Goldwing Daily Rider
1975 Goldwing 'Max'
1984 Goldwing New Bagger Project
1976 Goldwing 'Grocery Getter' Sold
1985 Goldwing Interstate 'NCC-1985' sold
1981 Silverwing Sold
1982 Goldeing Project Sold
1981 Goldwing Parted Out
1983 Goldwing Project Sold
1973 CB500F Long Gone
1966 CL77 First Street Bike
http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery3/index.p ... ans/ritalz
2003 Goldwing Daily Rider
1975 Goldwing 'Max'
1984 Goldwing New Bagger Project
1976 Goldwing 'Grocery Getter' Sold
1985 Goldwing Interstate 'NCC-1985' sold
1981 Silverwing Sold
1982 Goldeing Project Sold
1981 Goldwing Parted Out
1983 Goldwing Project Sold
1973 CB500F Long Gone
1966 CL77 First Street Bike
http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery3/index.p ... ans/ritalz
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