Electronic Ignition Tweaking Instructions

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Dr. Frankenstein
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Re: Electronic Ignition Tweaking Instructions

#31

Post by Dr. Frankenstein »

Actually, I may have hit upon success this afternoon. After me and Cliff deduced the problem may have been a bad connection between the red wires, I went ahead and changed out the connectors with some regular bullet connectors. Still had nothing. The test light stayed on.

Checked the voltage at the accessory panel - 11.64 volts. Hmmmm.

Switched over the spade connector in the panel to the other side, turned the engine over by hand and it seems to work as intended, with the test light coming on and going out as the magnet passed the sensor. I checked for spark in all four plugs and got it, so I think my problem might be solved. I say 'might' because I ran out of time and haven't put any gas in it; and still need to put in antifreeze (or just water for the time being) and see if it fires, but I THINK it will...

Got the exhaust put back on and it's starting to look like a motorcycle again. I will report back.
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Re: Electronic Ignition Tweaking Instructions

#32

Post by Dr. Frankenstein »

Nope, I take it all back. Went out this afternoon to see if I could fill it up with water and check to see if it will run - decided to check the timing one more time and wouldn't you know it when I put the test lead on the blue connector, set it to F2, spun it around and Nothing - no light.

Checked the yellow/green connector and THAT lit up; spun it around again to F2, changed the test lead back to the blue/yellow connector and still nothing. I loosened the sensor plate, thinking it just might need to be tweaked as per the instructions, and still nothing.

12 volts across the Accessory panel, 12 volts down the red wire, Nothing at the plate. I hooked it up directly from the battery Positive and still nothing, now on both of them! This is driving me nuts, I might just go back to points. It worked last night.

**30 minutes later...**

Went back out, went over everything again and the only thing I did differently was I switched out the wire going into the B/Y connector and just swapped the male part from the unit into the other receptacle inside the (oem) female two-pronged connector; everything seems to be working as it should, although I had to rotate the plate probably 5 degrees or more to get the light to match up with the F2 mark; F1 seems to be right on the money...

Seems like it might have just been a dirty connection, so after I get this thing firing reliably I'll go back and clean out those connections really well.

And to top it all off I have a leaky waterpump cover gasket! :IDTS:
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Re: Electronic Ignition Tweaking Instructions

#33

Post by Dr. Frankenstein »

But Wait, There's More!

In the recent past - like a few weeks ago, or whenever it was - I thought I had my electrical ignition gremlins on 'Rusty', my '78 project, all worked out. I had my test light coming on at the appropriate times, I finally managed to get a spark through all four plugs, Life was Sweet. Note, the only thing I've done in the interim is to take out and rebuild the starter.

Went out today to start the bike again, hoping I could get it to start like I did a week or so ago when it ran for about 30 seconds and then shut down. I cleaned out the starter, got that back in, put in some 30-weight and ATF like Randakk says, cranked the bike over with a fully charged battery (and it cranked a lot better, too!) and got Nothing. No Start. (And the oil stayed clear this time, too; a bit of tinge from the ATF, but now where NEAR what it looked like the first time!

Okay, So...check the timing...Key On, Switch On/Run, hook the test light up to the unit again, go around the crank with the test lead in the blue connector - Nothing. The light will not light up

Put the test lead in the Green connector - it DID come on when it's supposed to - but then it didn't. That test lead now stays on all the time as I go around the crank. Take out the test lead, and it goes out.

I also got a bit of a surprise when the wrench grounded out on the frame, and it cranked/jumped, almost taking my hand with it!

I checked for spark - #1 and 2 are great - nice fat spark! Nothing on #3 and 4. Again.

Checked all my connections, they are hooked up. I checked voltage at the Accessory panel - 12 volts from the one receptacle that is NOT being used, and Zero volts from the one I had the famed electronic ignition Red Wire attached to.

Okay, switch them out - so I did. Now I have 12 volts at the receptacle NOT being used, and Zero volts at the one the red wire is now attached to! Pardon my french, but "WTF??"" I have continuity through the red wire to where it connects to the electronic ignition unit - but the voltage at the Accessory panel seems to be playing Whack-A-Mole!

Also...! It cranks like a champ with the Start switch in the "Off" position, but seems to lug when I turn it to "Run"...

One weird thing now is the turn signal buzzer isn't working - I haven't messed with that at all, but now when I turn on the turn signals, they just make that "tik-tok" sound instead of that annoying "Bzzzz...! Bzzzt..! Bzzz...!" noise. It's like the buzzer isn't working...

One other thing: there is an unconnected green wire down near the turn signal relay - that has 12 volts running through it. See it...? I haven't tried this yet, but any ideas what would happen if I connected the red wire to that??
ImageDSCN2422 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

The only other thing I've messed with that black plastic connector the coils plug into - I took out all the spade connectors and polished them up real well, and it feels a bit 'loose'...a bad connection there, maybe...?

And those two white/Green wires hanging there - should they be connected?
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Re: Electronic Ignition Tweaking Instructions

#34

Post by gltriker »

:oldies John

Is this the same GL1000 that required a starter solenoid replacement?

Get yourself as one with Rusty, and focus your attention in that area. Start at the battery.
Perhaps chant an Om ( Aum) or two in peace and harmony... invoke electrical enlightenment... ;) Ohm

Wiggle wires and tug on terminals. Check the fuse/s condition. Remove and Inspect... perhaps proactively Replace glass fuses.
the bike's Accessory circuit must be fuse protected?

Key switch?

Savvy
Last edited by gltriker on Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Electronic Ignition Tweaking Instructions

#35

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Dr. Frankenstein wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 3:54 pm Put the test lead in the Green connector - it DID come on when it's supposed to - but then it didn't. That test lead now stays on all the time as I go around the crank. Take out the test lead, and it goes out.
What exactly do you mean by that?
It sounds to me like you are calling the test light a "test lead" (which is the name of the wires that plug into your multimeter). Assuming that's what you mean, which green connector did you connect it to and where did you connect the test light's other connection?
Checked all my connections, they are hooked up. I checked voltage at the Accessory panel - 12 volts from the one receptacle that is NOT being used, and Zero volts from the one I had the famed electronic ignition Red Wire attached to.

Okay, switch them out - so I did. Now I have 12 volts at the receptacle NOT being used, and Zero volts at the one the red wire is now attached to! Pardon my french, but "WTF??"" I have continuity through the red wire to where it connects to the electronic ignition unit - but the voltage at the Accessory panel seems to be playing Whack-A-Mole!
This sounds like contacts that aren't firmly connecting or possibly a fuse that has a break with the ends barely touching so that it can allow a small amount of current to pass but the ends move apart when higher current tries to pass through it (this can happen inside the end cap of a glass tube fuse).
Also...! It cranks like a champ with the Start switch in the "Off" position, but seems to lug when I turn it to "Run"...
If your ignition system is like the Dyna S that it is supposedly cloned from it will draw several amps of current. If the battery is weak this could be enough that there isn't enough left to operate the starter motor. I know you said you started with a fully charged battery but how much have you cranked the starter since it was charged?
Note that the alternator's output is dependent on engine RPM and it takes 5-10 minutes of running at 3,000 RPM or higher to return as much charge to the battery as you use cranking the starter motor for 5 seconds.
One weird thing now is the turn signal buzzer isn't working - I haven't messed with that at all, but now when I turn on the turn signals, they just make that "tik-tok" sound instead of that annoying "Bzzzz...! Bzzzt..! Bzzz...!" noise. It's like the buzzer isn't working...
This could be another sign that the battery needs to be charged.
One other thing: there is an unconnected green wire down near the turn signal relay - that has 12 volts running through it.
This makes absolutely no sense. Aside from volts being the electrical equivalent of pressure so they can't "run through" anything (amps are the equivalent of flow and amps do run through things), all green wires should be at ground potential (= the same as at the battery's negative terminal).
When you measure 12V with one of your meter's test leads connected to the green wire what is the meter's other test lead connected to?
Any voltage measurement has to be made with respect to some other point. In vehicle wiring this is usually the ground connection and in most vehicles you will encounter that is the battery's negative terminal. If you connect your meter's black test lead to battery negative and its red test lead to any green wire it should read zero volts.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
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Re: Electronic Ignition Tweaking Instructions

#36

Post by Dr. Frankenstein »

At this point I'm thinking there's a lot more messed up with this bike than I know...

"This sounds like contacts that aren't firmly connecting or possibly a fuse that has a break with the ends barely touching so that it can allow a small amount of current to pass but the ends move apart when higher current tries to pass through it (this can happen inside the end cap of a glass tube fuse)."

I found a 15 amp fuse in the Accessory fuse spot where it says there should be a 5 amp. Would this have any effect?


"It sounds to me like you are calling the test light a "test lead" (which is the name of the wires that plug into your multimeter). Assuming that's what you mean, which green connector did you connect it to and where did you connect the test light's other connection?"

What I meant was, with the key 'On' and the switch in the 'Run' position, I grounded the test light to the carburetor stay plate and put the red lead from the test light into the Blue/Yellow connector to test whether or not I had a signal going to that sensor on the electronic ignition; I turned the crank by hand and got nothing - the light stayed off as the magnet passed the sensor. I then put the Red line from the test light into the Green/Yellow connector, spun the crank by hand and it DID light up as it passed the sensor.

"Any voltage measurement has to be made with respect to some other point. In vehicle wiring this is usually the ground connection and in most vehicles you will encounter that is the battery's negative terminal. If you connect your meter's black test lead to battery negative and its red test lead to any green wire it should read zero volts."

I put the black lead on the Negative battery post, the red lead on the green wire, and got 31.5 mV. The voltmeter I used was set to DC volts and is self-ranging.

I tried to start it again just for the heck of it and it lugged several times, caught briefly and seemed to run roughly on two cylinders for about 5 seconds, but then stalled out and wouldn't restart. The starter was too hot to touch for more than a second and started oozing some of the lithium grease I rebuilt it with out of the starter seam closest to the engine. Yes, I made sure the cap was tight when I rebuilt/installed it.

That's all I know so far.
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Re: Electronic Ignition Tweaking Instructions

#37

Post by gltriker »

Touching either of the 2 shiny carburetor stay plates is not a solid ground path decision.
The carburetor rack is insulated from the engine as a ground source by the rubber connectors on all 4 intake elbows .
The choke cable outer housing is insulated from ground too .
The throttle cables are not suited for providing a ground path, either.
The air filter housing has no purposeful reason for contact with a ground.

Use the battery negative terminal post for meaningful results.

Don't be distracted by the shiny things
Last edited by gltriker on Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
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^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

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October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
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Re: Electronic Ignition Tweaking Instructions

#38

Post by Dr. Frankenstein »

"Don't be distracted by the shiny things"

Case in point, I was doing some digging, and this may seem academic, but what about the main ground behind the triangle?? I didn't even think about that until I read it on GoldwingFacts.com - apparently other '78 owners have had the same problem with the starter, at least. I'll take off the left triangle tomorrow and give it all a good cleaning. The engine won't drop though if I take it out, will it? That looks like a pretty robust engine mount...
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Re: Electronic Ignition Tweaking Instructions

#39

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Dr. Frankenstein wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:00 pm I found a 15 amp fuse in the Accessory fuse spot where it says there should be a 5 amp. Would this have any effect?
The value (amp rating) of a fuse only determines the maximum current that can flow through it before it stops allowing any current to flow.
I learned the hard way not to trust ancient fuses because they can fail in odd ways because of age without warning. I highly recommend replacing all of the fuses with new ones. And when you install the new fuses make sure the fuse holders are nice and tight on them so that you have good solid connections. Even if this doesn't fix your current problem it is a giid idea because it will prevent issues in the future.
What I meant was
<<<<<<
I then put the Red line from the test light into the Green/Yellow connector, spun the crank by hand and it DID light up as it passed the sensor.
In post #33 you said you "Put the test lead in the Green connector". Green and green/yellow are NOT the same thing. If you don't tell us exactly what you mean the first time we can't help you figure things out.

And as Cliff said, the carb rack is NOT a ground point.
I put the black lead on the Negative battery post, the red lead on the green wire, and got 31.5 mV. The voltmeter I used was set to DC volts and is self-ranging.
That is negligible.

What happens when you connect the black lead to the battery negative and the red lead to the blue or the yellow?

Low battery voltage can contribute to the starter motor being hotter than normal too. Did you charge the battery? You need to do that any time you have cranked the starter motor a total of about 30 seconds.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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Re: Electronic Ignition Tweaking Instructions

#40

Post by gltriker »

John-
Have you reviewed the voltage drop testing photographs with information arrowheads show I posted at my, " Maybe I'll call it Threedom " chronicle? posts# 378 and 379-
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996&p=812404#p812404
Yes? The inspiration/motivation I had for presenting all that stuff was conundrums like this.
TWO Strategically placed, dedicated purpose DVMs seemed a practical approach to suss out abnormal voltage drop events.

Tasked with constantly monitoring battery voltage across the trike's AGM battery terminals, was my OTC auto-ranging DVM. (sporting a recently installed, new internal battery ;) ) During the testing session, It will always remain there monitoring the fully-charged, to-start-with, bike's battery voltage. Starting motor demands, running engine and lighting systems' demands, plus dynamic charging system performance are all monitored and displayed at the OTC auto-ranging DVM.

The additional DVM, the yellow Extech DVM, an exploring? voltage tester, has its black tester lead probe *permanently?* connected to the bike's battery negative (ground) terminal, as well. Wherever a measurable positive voltage connection is supposed to be present, this exploring DVMs red tester lead probe will be employed to confirm yes, no, maybe.

Suppose your troubled "Rusty" runs for a short time, then dies. Won't restart. Had the battery's voltage, tested directly across its terminals, dropped so low its ignition system shuts down? Its state of charge remaining so low, when attempting to restart the engine, the starter relay can't function to conduct current from the battery positive post into the starter motor to spin and engage the starter clutch. So low, even though the starter motor might try to crank the engine, the Dyna solid state ignition modules won't operate correctly.
As Sidecar Bob had processed for you, the starter motor could become abnormally overheated in a very short time, as well.

The likelihood of a Key Switch with badly weathered internal copper contacts is highly suspect in this bike that had sat outside, unprotected, for who knows how long.

Follow my lead. Start with a fully charged battery. Keep watching the measured effect the work loads are placing upon the fully charged battery. TWO DVMs with new internal batteries, trustworthy black and red tester leads, and a 12volts probe tester with an integral low watts light bulb are invaluable electrical troubleshooting tools.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Re: Electronic Ignition Tweaking Instructions

#41

Post by OhioBill »

Are both Positive and negative to your battery tight? I chased wiring problems until I discovered the negative was loose.
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Re: Electronic Ignition Tweaking Instructions

#42

Post by Shadowjack »

From the Roadkill Customs Facebook page.
Bad grounds.jpg
Bad grounds.jpg (129.49 KiB) Viewed 741 times
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Re: Electronic Ignition Tweaking Instructions

#43

Post by gltriker »

lolol 😆
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Re: Electronic Ignition Tweaking Instructions

#44

Post by Sidecar Bob »

They forgot to show the ground connection to a green wire in the main wiring harness as made by someone who actually knows what they are doing.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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