1980 KZ1300 - Bad Day at the Office

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Paola Zago
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"-Bringing Up the Rear

#766

Post by Paola Zago »

hi Lucien, a curiosity, but didn't the KZ 1300 have the same air shock absorbers that are mounted on the GL 1200? or at least, in Europe, the ones I have seen mount them.
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Lucien Harpress
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"-Bringing Up the Rear

#767

Post by Lucien Harpress »

They did switch to air shocks later on, 81 or 82. The B touring models may have had them earlier, 80 perhaps. The 79 and 80 A models had the black spring type, but I've even seen minor variations in those.
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"-Scorched Earth (Pt. 1)

#768

Post by Lucien Harpress »

I said was getting serious about losing patience, and I wasn't lying. After this many years of no great results, it's time to get drastic. I figure start with round 1, which is a bit easier to do. Namely, a completely new carb rack.

Image

Image

I saw this set on eBay, and while a bit more than I wanted to spend, I also know what trying to cheap out will get you (namely, my last round of "spare carbs"- most of which were either merely unusable or utter junk). While definitely not NOS "Never touched fuel" quality, they are very good. There's a bit of carbon marking on the intakes, so they've been run before. I still need to crack them open to check the internals, but the pics on the auction listing looked pretty clean. Heck, the anti-tamper plugs for the mixture screws are still intact. Those will need to come off, of course, but in due time.

Interesting to note the different carb bowls as well- my current set have drain plugs screwed straight up the bottom. This new set has channels that lead to drain spigots, sealed with screw plugs ran in from the side. I don't know if these are super-early or later sets. I just know the ability to pop on a drain tube will make draining the carbs a lot cleaner.

I hope to get these on the bike relatively soon. If I do and get identical problems to what I currently have, we move on to Scorched Earth Part 2- engine replacement.

(I'm hoping to not.)
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"-Scorched Earth (Pt. 1)

#769

Post by Oldewing »

Wow, you my friend are set on getting this one correct,


Effort to the max.



Hope to see you at MId Ohio.
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Lucien Harpress
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"-Scorched Earth (Pt. 1)

#770

Post by Lucien Harpress »

I certainly hope this does it. Carbs are easier to find than engines, but they do come up from time to time.

I managed to get all the mixture screw caps off without incident. All the screws were free as well, which is a plus. Overall this set seems to be in quite good shape.

That being said, one of the top cap screws stripped out when I put it back in, and further inspection revealed it wasn't entirely my fault. It looks like the screw was initially only being held on by a thread or two, and those came out when I put the carbs back together. Thankfully it seems like a pretty straightforward helicoil repair- it just depends on how much meat I have left on the carb body.

Never a dull moment.
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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Lucien Harpress
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"-Scorched Earth (Pt. 1)

#771

Post by Lucien Harpress »

A quick trip down south to get a hand re-tapping and time-serting the carb body later (thanks Robin!), and the carbs were ready to go on the bike. Checking float heights via the wet height is still a pain in the behind, but a bit easier with the different style carb bowl drains. The integrated drain nipples are a nice touch. The initial heights were close, but a touch high. On the plus side, levels didn't fluctuate at all, so the valves seem to be good.

I got the carbs popped on the bike, gave it a splash of fuel, and hit the start button. The result? The bike..... ran like crap.

BUT- hear me out. I'm completely untrained, but to me it seemed to run like crap in a way that was down to a mis-tuned set of carbs. The revs were out of control (sync has not been touched yet) and any poor running happened to both sides (mixture screws haven't been touched yet either). The consistent hard snapping out of the left side at mid-throttle didn't seem to be a thing, so I'm tentatively hopeful. On top of that, all 6 cylinders seemed to hit right off the bat, which is a super good sign.

As always, I'll update when I know for sure, but here's to a positive direction.
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"-Scorched Earth (Pt. 1)

#772

Post by robin1731 »

anim-cheers1 Fingers crossed.
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"-Scorched Earth (Pt. 1)

#773

Post by Lucien Harpress »

I finally got out to try to dial these new carbs in, and, well... I'm staying as positive as I can be.

As before, I had a runaway idle situation pretty bad. I got the bike running, but the idle fluctuated back and forth between "acceptable" and "through the roof". Worryingly, from my sync gauges, the sync looked pretty close.

I did a bit of back and forth with the adjusters, got the idle stable-ish, and did a pass with the Colortune to get the mixtures dialed in. Two or three were a bit off, the rest were pretty close. I finished up with another check of the sync, fiddled with the balance screws a bit, before locking it down.

After all that, I got a steady idle and decent "blip" response in the garage, without load. On the one hand, it still kinda feels like the idle wants to get away given an excuse, but on the other hand, for the bit there at the end, it didn't. I may have a bit of a vaccuum leak at one of the sync ports too (one of the adapter tubes is a pain to get to), which may be part of it.

Either way, I shut things down for today and will double-check everything tomorrow after everything's cooled down. If that works, it'll be a couple test rides this week and the next, hopefully in time to get this pig finished for Gilmore.

(For what it's worth the mid-range 'snap-snap' out of the left hand side never really reared it's ugly head. It still doesn't have what I'd call rock-solid running, but it's to the point I may just need to run it out. You know, blow some of the dust out.)
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"-Scorched Earth (Pt. 1)

#774

Post by desertrefugee »

I’d say you definitely deserve a little saddle time in that one. It owes you!
- Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass. It's about learning to ride in the rain.
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 Ride Report- I Can Work With This

#775

Post by Lucien Harpress »

Well, I got the old girl out on the road for a trip around the block or two, just to see what I was dealing with, and... well, mixed bag.

The good? From lower-midrange on up, the bike has never run better. I've always had this engine buzz from 3.5k-4k RPMs that rises and falls with the fortunes of these carburetors- at best it's a minor "thing" that happens, at worse the mirrors and useless. This is the smoothest it's ever been. I've got a feeling it'll never go away completely because the new piston I put in was never weight matched, but the vibration is a quirk, not a problem. And the constant (I'm guessing) lean-snapping out of the left exhaust never materialized. Roll on at speed is very good, even down to fairly low speeds.

The bad? Off-idle is.... absolute garbage. Not sure if my sync is off or there's some crap in the idle circuits (or both), but it will burble, sputter, and miss pretty badly moving away from any stop. Once it hits the bike is a rocket, but it's SUPER-rough getting there. You can even tell at idle something isn't hitting consistently- rough, smooths out, back to rough, smooth, etc. I'm leaning toward 3 and 4, with 4 being slightly worse.

Still, "gunky carbs" I can deal with. Clogged idle passages seems an easier fix that "random over-lean condition on one cylinder for what reason I have no idea".

Image

Still, it was good to get it in the sun for a bit. And I got to test my new helmet, which was a nice bonus. I'll probably dig into the idle passages this weekend- the goal is to get it figured by next weekend, so we'll see how much a deadline helps.

Until then!
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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Lucien Harpress
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 Ride Report- I Can Work With This

#776

Post by Lucien Harpress »

After a weekend of futzing, I've gotta think there's a clog in the idle curcuits on the right side, 5 or 6. I rechecked sync and mixture settings, and while I could make it a little better, the miss + off-idle hesitation never went away (even have a tank or so of Seafoam run through them). However, if I let the bike get pretty hot (middle of the temp gauge, normal operating temp is the lower third), things seemed to get better.

I'm leaning toward number 5, only because of a quirk of the twin-barrel carbs. Because the two butterflies between pairs can't be adjusted, theoretically the vacuum readings between them are identical. For 1/2 and 3/4, this checks out. There IS a difference between 5/6 however, one which didn't exist with my old carb rack. So I'm thinking (and hoping) that's where I've got a bit of crud to fish out.

Worst case I swap carb 3 from this rack with my old one, but I'd like to avoid breaking the rack if I can help it- it's a bit of a PITA. Also, the rest of the carb is great- apart from the off-idle disgustingness, the bike has never run better.
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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Lucien Harpress
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 - Priorities!

#777

Post by Lucien Harpress »

I really need to get this carb bank pulled so I can clean out all these idle passages. Gilmore is Sunday, and I'd really, REALLY like to finally take the 1300 for once.

So naturally, I'm fixing a problem I never had!

Image

A while back I found out my rear shocks were leaking, and replaced them with modern equivalents. Well, as luck would have it somebody was parting out an '80 1300 on eBay, and had a pair of stock rear shocks for a very reasonable price. True, they were very dirty and a bit rusty, but hey- nothing some ratchet strap spring compressors and 2K spray black paint can't fix, right?

(I do realize my priorities are a bit skewed on this one, but I've also been a bit anal when it comes to period correctness on this one. I'll get the running issues figured out- I'm really close, I feel like. But this is the kind of bike that when stock parts come up, you kinda have to jump on them.)

Whelp, I've got a marathon shop day tomorrow, in an effort to get a running bike by Sunday. Can I do in one day what I so far haven't in 6 years? Stay tuned!
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 - Priorities!

#778

Post by desertrefugee »

You know Lucien, priorities don't even factor into it. Practicality does not factor into it. Rational, pragmatic sensibilities do not factor into it (by most people's estimation).

We here are not most people. We get it. You're preaching to the choir, buddy. That motorcycle does it for you. So, you do it for that motorcycle. It's a symbiotic relationship.

No explanation needed. Not here anyway...

Someday, I will get my 6 cylinder Kawasaki on the road. For some reason, it went way, way onto the back burner.
- Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass. It's about learning to ride in the rain.
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 - Priorities!

#779

Post by sgwilly »

Is it me or does that table look to be about 2 tons? Keep at that KZ!
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Lucien Harpress
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 - Priorities!

#780

Post by Lucien Harpress »

Oh trust me- it is. The younger brother welded it up for a welding table and it is PLANTED.

In bike news- no surprises. The big 1300 is missing another Gilmore show. I've come to the strange place of a bike that needs a fairly rich setup to idle properly, but will (I'm guessing?) load up the spark plugs while on the road sitting at a stop light. After cleaning out the idle passages (all clear) and getting it all back together, it ran amazing while cold with the airbox off. However the longer it ran the worse the stops got, to the point that (when hot) any throttle would almost kill the bike until I could throttle through it.

Mixture settings have always been the bane of my existence, so nothing new there.

In any case, at least my problems are narrowed down to the idle. At speed this bike is beautiful, and (dare I say).... fun?

Oh well. Back to picking at it.

EDIT: At the risk of going in circles, after I've had a bit of a think I figure I may as well double-check the float heights. The manual gives a range for the fuel level to be at, and while I thought I'd gotten it pretty close to the middle, maybe not. Heck, maybe the rack wasn't level when I checked it, which would account for the one side running worse than the other. In any case, I can run the fuel levels down to the lower end of the range and see if that makes a difference.
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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