1980 KZ1300 - Bad Day at the Office

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Lucien Harpress
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"- (Ongoing) Ride Reports

#661

Post by Lucien Harpress »

Now that I'm getting a feel for the bike back, I'm going to try to keep a regular(ish) update on how the bike seems to be doing on my next couple rides. The goal is to actually ride it to the Gilmore show this year, and while it's most likely good enough to go right now, it'd be nice to lock down what I can in the next couple weeks.

First off, I think when I get some down-time, I'm going to replace the steering neck bearings. The bike "wanders" a bit, ever so slightly, as I ride it down the road. It just feels a bit looser than I'm used to, and while it may just be a a quirk of the bike, it may ALSO be the 30,000 or so (however many it had) miles spent lugging around a massive fairing along with all the other weight of the bike. In any case, this can be a fall/winter project.

Second, I'm still getting some minor misfires from the middle two cylinders. Just enough to be annoying. 4 is just ever-so-slightly lean, which is probably just a idle screw setting. The plug for 3 is noticeably darker than the other 5, and given that's the side where most of my misfires are coming from, I bet that's the culprit. It's not a mixture screw setting, because when I Colortuned it it had an errant misfire no matter what setting the screw was at. On the flip side, it was ALSO the only cylinder I could back the screw out far enough to register as "orange" on the Colortune, aka way too rich.

There are a number of idle air passages for these carbs, ones that start very near to the ends of an airbox that doesn't seal to the carb very well. They are non-removable and have a bit of a convoluted journey from intake to venturi, so I'm wondering if they've gotten clogged somehow. Also, there isn't many things left it could be that that particular cylinder doesn't share with something else.

Compression is good- it's one of the higher number pistons, in fact.

Float settings are good. It shares bowls with 4, which is (ironically) the LEAN cylinder.

Ignition is fine- it shares a coil with 4, and checking with a Colortune shows it sparks every time, even if it doesn't necessarily "hit" every time.

Choke/enricher needle isn't leaking- it shares that with 4.

Valves should be good- I had the whole head redone by a machine shop and Robin helped set the valves. (Okay- he basically did it.)

BUT, ignoring all that, there's a lot to be happy about, too. Pistons 1,2,5, 6? Absolutely spot-on. And I've had 4 spot on before, so I just need to tweak that one a bit. If I can lock 3 down, I'm going to be golden.
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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Lucien Harpress
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"- ACTUAL Progress!

#662

Post by Lucien Harpress »

Because I have managed to isolate the only engine problems I have left to cylinder 3 (which, incidentally, was the one with the bent rod in the FIRST place, way back when), I pulled the carbs again to see if I could figure out what was going on. To my surprise, via a combination of internet research and practical observation, I actually came to a shockingly solid idea of what's going on.

But first, a look down a typical KZ1300 carb throat:
1300carb.jpg
1300carb.jpg (69.02 KiB) Viewed 349 times
Starting from the top and working our way down, the large hole is for the choke/enriching circuit. Next up, the tiny hole by itself is for the idle mixture screw. The slightly larger hole down and to the right is for the deceleration air cutoff valve, and is only present in the intakes for cylinders 1, 3, and 5 (left side of each individual carb body).

The important holes, however, are the three tiny ones arranged under everything else. From what I gather, these link up to the pilot jet and meter fuel into the engine, each progressive hole being uncovered by the throttle plate as it opens.

This particular photo is from the intake for the problem cylinder, so it doesn't show what the other 5 do- light carbon staining that shows air and fuel flow into the engine. I can only assume something's messed up in at least one of these holes, enough to make that one cylinder run like crap. I gotta imagine I only missed it because to really clean it out you need to run the idle-mixture screw all the way in AND cover up the main jet so cleaner doesn't just exit there instead.

Or at least I hope so, because I'm running out of other options. :lol: In any case, I'll grab some carb cleaner tomorrow, poke them holes out, and hopefully (HOPEFULLY) have this bike ready for Gilmore by the 9th.
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"- ACTUAL Progress!

#663

Post by flyin900 »

Good idea to clean out that carbon ring and make sure all those passages are clear with cleaner and compressed air run through each one.

Then you can be " Happy Gilmore" crossy.gif
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1966 CL77 - Honda 305cc - Dual purpose - "Gentleman's Scrambler" was a period moniker.
1967 CL175K0 - Low production number with #802 engine serial- winter 2019/2020 full restoration.
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1978 CB550K - Very original bike with only 7499 Km. from new - light cleanup and refresh done.
1983 CB1100F - Canadian model - DOHC Supersport in pristine low kilometre condition from new.
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Lucien Harpress
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"- ACTUAL Progress!

#664

Post by Lucien Harpress »

Took an easy weekend to pop apart the carbs and get the idle passages on 3 cleared out. I cleared it with a bit of wire beforehand, and I could've swore I felt a bit of resistance in at least one of the holes. Sure enough, once I blasted it with some carb cleaner this morning, after double-checked all 4 passages were equally clear, there was a bit of gunk left in the carb throat after I was done.

The OTHER thing I noticed was that, at some point, the plastic washer that fits under the slide(s) for the center carburetor had gone missing. The equivalent part on a GL1000 carb would be the the plastic ring that fits around the top of the carb body, under the cap and slide. I ALSO found another bodge-job by the PO, who rather than replace the washer, just stuffed in some gasket material.

It's a minor enough thing that I can still (hopefully) ride the bike out to Gilmore next weekend, but I've also got a replacement washer on order so I can fix this correctly.

Speaking of which, I just hooked the (newly cleaned) carbs back up to the bike, and while I'm still getting some weirdness, it's a LOT better than it was, and I still need to set the inner two mixture screws. I'm sincerely hoping I've got this licked.
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"- ACTUAL Progress!

#665

Post by Track T 2411 »

Sometimes progress is measured in tenths, but it all adds up! action1 action1 action1
"I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

"He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail" - Abraham Maslow

"If you can't take the time to do it right the first time, how are you ever going to find the time to do it over?" -Unknown

Current Rides:
'Grumpy' - '81 Standard, now fully dressed.
'Layla' - '81 Standard w/dealer installed fairing and Hondaline bags.
'Scarlett' '76 'Survivor' nekkid as a j-bird!

Under Construction:
The 'Jalopy' '78-'79 Mash-up
'Quikie' '81 gl1100I back on the lift, project with the step-son!

In The Shed:
'81 gl1100I barn find aka "Josie, the farmer's daughter." (almost comatose build)
'77 gl1000, roller parts bike.
'82 gl1100I, 'Old Crusty' titled roller parts bike (free!)
'82 gl1100I, My first 'Wing, and an expensive lesson!
New2U Bike? Read Me.
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Lucien Harpress
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"- I've Done All I Can

#666

Post by Lucien Harpress »

Whelp, I'm literally out of ideas.

This is not necessarily a bad thing. I did a bit of mixture screw messing on the center carb, and, at least in my garage, I've got it running as well as it ever has. I'll be 100% honest, I'm still getting a VERY occasional miss on cylinder 3, but it honestly may just be me being paranoid (paranoid? ME?).

The goal, obviously, is to make the 4 hour ride to Gilmore's Vintage Weekend and back this Sunday. As a bit of a shakedown run, there's a Vintage/Rat Bike night tomorrow at a bar in downtown Toledo which, from my place, is about an hour each way. I figure if the 1300 can make that and back with no problem, it should probably make Gilmore.

Honestly, the only things I still need to do engine-wise is swap out that carb washer once it shows up, and then I'm done fiddling.
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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desertrefugee
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"- I've Done All I Can

#667

Post by desertrefugee »

Ride the danged thing. Worry about a minor skip later. Go to Gilmore. Be the only KZ1300 in attendance. Take pictures. Share here.

The next weekend, take a four day tour of the upper peninsula. Get that machine into its native habitat - the open road!
- Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass. It's about learning to ride in the rain.
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"- I've Done All I Can

#668

Post by Track T 2411 »

I agree with the sandman. Ride the durn thing! lolol lolol lolol
"I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

"He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail" - Abraham Maslow

"If you can't take the time to do it right the first time, how are you ever going to find the time to do it over?" -Unknown

Current Rides:
'Grumpy' - '81 Standard, now fully dressed.
'Layla' - '81 Standard w/dealer installed fairing and Hondaline bags.
'Scarlett' '76 'Survivor' nekkid as a j-bird!

Under Construction:
The 'Jalopy' '78-'79 Mash-up
'Quikie' '81 gl1100I back on the lift, project with the step-son!

In The Shed:
'81 gl1100I barn find aka "Josie, the farmer's daughter." (almost comatose build)
'77 gl1000, roller parts bike.
'82 gl1100I, 'Old Crusty' titled roller parts bike (free!)
'82 gl1100I, My first 'Wing, and an expensive lesson!
New2U Bike? Read Me.
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Lucien Harpress
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"- I've Done All I Can

#669

Post by Lucien Harpress »

Okay. :8)
20190607_160152.jpg
20190607_160152.jpg (184.83 KiB) Viewed 264 times
I took a couple hour run down around town, including a bit of freeway time. The good news is that I don't have any doubts it can make it to Gilmore Sunday (weather permitting... blah).

But (there's always a but)..... there's a couple things I need to keep an eye on.

First off, I'm going to NEED to take a look at the steering head bearings. There's a really slow weave I'm getting in certain circumstances that I'm not okay with at all. Not to mention that turning the front forks did fill a bit notchy, so that's going to be a winter project.

However, the biggie- the left side (most likely 3, grrrrr EDIT: Definitely 3, confirmed) is still playing up. At speed it makes no difference- the issue arises when starting. Because of whatever reasons, some cylinders start before others, while others get left behind. In fact, as least one piston didn't start hitting until a couple minutes of running. The worry is that this happens enough to foul the plug, which has happened before.

What I'm getting at is even though I put a lot of work into this engine, I'm not ruling out that I screwed something up. 5 cylinders are perfect, and the last is okay most of the time, but the "bad" one still has good compression, so I'm not sure what's going on. It could clear up, but with as many miles as I've put on it (at least 1500, maybe more- it's hard to tell between all the wrenching), you'd think SOMETHING would happen.

I've got a bit of tax return money left over. Worst case? I find a new center carb and just replace that whole thing. Dismal case? I keep an eye out for a deal on a used motor. :IDTS:

I'm always willing to change my mind, though. :lol: Bah. Gilmore first. Headscratching later.
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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Lucien Harpress
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"- I've Done All I Can

#670

Post by Lucien Harpress »

Just for fun, here's what my plugs look like. Cylinder 3 on the top, and essentially what the other 5 look like on the bottom. This includes 4, which shares a carb and a coil.
20190607_205822.jpg
20190607_205822.jpg (50.25 KiB) Viewed 250 times
20190607_205844.jpg
20190607_205844.jpg (55.57 KiB) Viewed 250 times
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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gltriker
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"- Who's Good at Reading Plugs?

#671

Post by gltriker »

I recall discovering the #3 cylinder's bent connecting rod and wrist pin, and highly suspect piston from several years ago.
As I recall you took our collective advice to replace all of the damaged components.

Since then the seemingly endless trials this engine has put you through had me wondering if I could offer any meaningful advice. Maybe I can.

Looking at the spark plugs, #3 cylinder being the most problematic and recalling your considerable investment in updated floats, multiple attempts to confirm fuel bowl fluid heights, Colortuning, constantly fouling spark plugs, etc., it suddenly came to me that some ill advised tuner PO may have done some "rejetting"; with a drill bit or two.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Lucien Harpress
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"- Who's Good at Reading Plugs?

#672

Post by Lucien Harpress »

Fun fact- I'm fairly certain all the idle jets have been swapped to brand new units as well. :roll: (Not the emulsion tube though..... hmm....)

I'm ruling out the engine, I think. Just for peace of mind I double (triple? quadruple?) checked compression numbers again, and as I remembered, this rebuilt unit has one of the better compression readings of the engine- 125psi, after a bit of a warmup ride. Just for fun I also checked how much air the engine pulled with my hand via the engine running and the back of the air filter off, and I couldn't tell any discernible difference between that and any other intake. Not the most scientific of measurements, but it also seems like that would be the most "it's either broke or not" issues to have.

I'm definitely leaning toward a carburetor issue at this point. Heck, it may still be something related to why the original rod got bent in the first place. Running on the mains doesn't seem to be an issue- I'm wondering if there's something funky in the idle air circuit (which is a series of small passages and permanent air jets, hence the new carb body), OR considering the placement, something to do with the air-cutoff valve, which dumps directly into this intake.

Also, the amount of engine work I've done far outstrips the amount of carb work, and for this same piston to keep acting up is very suspect.

In any case, it's a minor issue, and the bane of my old motorcycle repair existence- that last 1%. Whatever this is, it's GOTTA be something annoyingly minor.

And who knows? Maybe the ride to Gilmore tomorrow will clear it up. [shrug]
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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gltriker
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"- Who's Good at Reading Plugs?

#673

Post by gltriker »

Enjoy the ride! tumb2 dancr

Triple A offers the same road assistance to motorcycles, too.
I've utilized my better level plan subscription a couple of times. Most notably, a broken clutch cable less than 5 miles from my house.

Less notable, run out of gasoline. :(

Ciao!
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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desertrefugee
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"- Who's Good at Reading Plugs?

#674

Post by desertrefugee »

Worst case, take a handful of spark plugs. Enjoy that ride!
- Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass. It's about learning to ride in the rain.
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Lucien Harpress
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Re: 1980 KZ1300 "Kiwi"- Who's Good at Reading Plugs?

#675

Post by Lucien Harpress »

I like that idea quite a bit.
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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