Smoke show

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Dirty Dave
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Smoke show

#1

Post by Dirty Dave »

Went for a quick romp on the 79 Wing and while at highway speed I noticed smoke coming
out of both sides of the exhaust, enough to think a ring job was needed. Then, it cleared
as if nothing had happened. Went on for a coupla minutes, all the while running well.

Haven't had an opportunity, due to freezing weather to take her out for a good run.
Just clearing out some accumulated crap from being disabled & worked on?

Hmmm.
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Re: Smoke show

#2

Post by Fred Camper »

My bet is some trapped oil in the heads burned out. Rings seat better over time so I would think on waiting before taking action.
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Re: Smoke show

#3

Post by Rat »

My recommended solution …. fill up with nice fresh gas, ride 200 miles … fill up with nice fresh gas, ride 200, etc

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Re: Smoke show

#4

Post by redglbx »

Rat is spot on in his advice ! Do you have any additives in your gas now ? Some of that will cause them to sometimes smoke as will just sitting over the winter. These are funny that way, they’ll usually run forever but can & will smoke like crazy for no apparent reason.

My 76 really fogged the place over 2wks ago when I fired it up to do the compression checks and leakdown. It hasn’t done that in a while, kinda surprised me but did clear up & run clean,,,, dunno!
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Dirty Dave
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Re: Smoke show

#5

Post by Dirty Dave »

Back from a trip abroad. Thanks for the responses.

Yeah. Some Seafoam & StaBil from winter storage.
Seems to be running fine now. It was just unusual
to see that much smoke on the hiway for a mile
or two. Always some glitch in keeping bikes running.

Still shaking my head about the fried alternator fuse
on the Valkyrie. I always seem to misdiagnose.
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Re: Smoke show

#6

Post by redglbx »

👍👍👍👍,, Yepper, my 76 sometimes in the spring for the first tankful will smoke, not mosquitoe killer fog but noticeable. I attribute it to my storage “pickle juice” in that tank which is Stabil, Lucas fuel treatment and Marvel Mystery Oil which Ithink is the real source of the smoke but it cleans any residual carbon off the piston and chamber and piston ring lands.
Red 1976 oe owner
1976 LTD restored
1980 CBX , in the que, to fix the ignorant heavy handed owner
1981 CBX
1977 CB750 K7
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1980 GL1100
1984 GL1200 naked
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Mickster
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Re: Smoke show

#7

Post by Mickster »

My 79 is doing the mosquito killer fog for no reason I know of.

Ran like a top before I turned it off. Let it sit in the barn for about 2 months. Couple days ago charged up the battery, siphoned out the gas and poured in new gas. Eventually started but smokes badly and has raw oil built up on the ends of the exhaust mufflers.

I've been starting it and running it (not riding it) several times a day for a couple days to see if anything changes. No change. No smoke for about a minute and then it starts to bellow out.

I have a basic understanding of how a motor works but is there something going on I don't know about? Or should I just keep running it like Rat advises and hope it clears itself up.
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gltriker
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Re: Smoke show

#8

Post by gltriker »

Mickster wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:44 pm My 79 is doing the mosquito killer fog for no reason I know of.

Ran like a top before I turned it off. Let it sit in the barn for about 2 months. Couple days ago charged up the battery, siphoned out the gas and poured in new gas. Eventually started but smokes badly and has raw oil built up on the ends of the exhaust mufflers.

I've been starting it and running it (not riding it) several times a day for a couple days to see if anything changes. No change. No smoke for about a minute and then it starts to bellow out.

I have a basic understanding of how a motor works but is there something going on I don't know about? Or should I just keep running it like Rat advises and hope it clears itself up.
The 'new' gas may not be 'good' gasoline.
You never know...might have had some diesel fuel mixed in as dispensed at the pump.

Another thought, Is the engine oil level too high in the sight window? Overfilled ? Fuel tank petcock was left turned to its ON position while sitting in the barn for 2 months?
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

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RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
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Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Re: Smoke show

#9

Post by DSA »

Could a compression test shed more light on in a potential ring issue? Be worth doing it again after a couple hundred miles of riding to see if they’re settling in
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Re: Smoke show

#10

Post by Mickster »

The gas is Top Tier 93 octane from Valero. Pet cock was turned off. The bike was running fine when I shut it off.

It'll start up, and run fairly well for 2-3 minutes with no smoke and then when it warms up the smoke starts. I think rings and valve seals are OK. Motor has about 38K miles on it factory stock.

Do you think it's possible that while sitting a bunch of oil just filled up in both heads and leaked down into the exhaust headers?

One oddity is that it runs like it has asthma. Poor idle and when I crank on the throttle it'll rev up but not like it used to, and backfires a bit.

Don't know why it starts smoking but I will check the intake filter and plenum area.
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gltriker
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Re: Smoke show

#11

Post by gltriker »

Mickster wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2023 6:00 pm The gas is Top Tier 93 octane from Valero. Pet cock was turned off. The bike was running fine when I shut it off.

It'll start up, and run fairly well for 2-3 minutes with no smoke and then when it warms up the smoke starts. I think rings and valve seals are OK. Motor has about 38K miles on it factory stock.

Do you think it's possible that while sitting a bunch of oil just filled up in both heads and leaked down into the exhaust headers?
IF the Bike was parked up on its center stand and IF engine's crankcase became grossly overfilled with engine oil ? Yes. Definitely.


One oddity is that it runs like it has asthma. Poor idle and when I crank on the throttle it'll rev up but not like it used to, and backfires a bit.

Don't know why it starts smoking but I will check the intake filter and plenum area.
(The 'new' gas may not be 'good' gasoline.
You never know...might have had some diesel fuel mixed in as dispensed at the pump.)
Note- truth- I've pumped fresh crap gasoline into trike's fuel tank twice in 31,000 ish miles of riding.
And
I Might have put several gallons of fresh crap gasoline into trike's fuel tank earlier this year when attempting to reawaken its engine.

important!
87 octane is Honda's GL1000 recommended gasoline standard. Try this first.

Drain the bike's fuel tank. Pour in fresh 87 octane gasoline. Drain all 4 carburetor fuel bowls. Install a new set of NGK D8EA (NGK 2120) spark plugs. ALSO. Confirm, 100% certainty, the engine's crankcase oil level is NOT overfilled. Might be a good time to change out the present engine oil volume and oil filter element, anyway.

Put the 93 octane gasoline in another vehicle's fuel tank.
( I searched for the gasoline octane rating required for a Dodge Challenger Hellcat 'HEMI' engine. Yep... 93 octane ;)

done now.
Last edited by gltriker on Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:44 pm, edited 7 times in total.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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NotSoLilCrippseys
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Re: Smoke show

#12

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

Smoke is a thing in these bikes.

My '79 will smoke out the left side if left on the side stand (super common since these bikes were new). It'll smoke out the right side sometimes, usually after running for a few minutes, as oil that got into the headers starts burning off. It clears up after a little bit. The first 5 times it happened, I half flipped out and went to all sorts of catastrophizing. Of course, I ride and can't see any smoke if I don't glance in a mirror. (My GL1100s will also smoke at times - always on or near start up.)

The recommendations others have made seem like good ones to me.
  • Too much oil in the crankcase is a possible cause. These flat 4s can get oil in the cylinders and out the exhaust while resting. I think I learned from Sidecar Bob that keeping oil at the midpoint in the sight glass is about the sweet spot.
  • I suppose oil in the fuel (MMO) could also be a cause. Recommendation to drain the tank may aid diagnosis and get out the hi-test, which is not what these bikes are built for. Before draining the tank - 5 gallons and a mess waiting to happen - I'd try a much, much simpler test: Hook up an external fuel source (bottle drop running into the fuel pump) with fresh 87 fuel. You could drain the carb bowls first or just let that little bit of gas burn through the system.
  • Rings/valves could be at issue. I'd guess not if the bike never really showed those signs before. I'm far from anything approaching an expert - or even a highly competent mechanic - but having brought 5 dead-to-previous-owner old GLs back to running and decent compression, I'd not rush to a worst case scenario.
  • Description says oil residue out the tailpipes and what we think is oily smoke. Are you confident they're both caused by the same problem? I ask because you could have a benign "oil into the exhaust while sitting for a bit" that's giving you the oily residue AND blown headgaskets that would smoke quite a bit. It could be easy enough to link the two. I wouldn't rush to suspect a head gasket issue, personally.
Coughing, missing, hacking on start (Asthma?) is something I experience sometimes, especially with my 1100s and when the temps are below about 50 f. Valves are cold and clatter. Air/fuel/spark just isn't getting there in the right ways for some reason or other. It bothers me if someone is around to hear it - ok, it embarrasses me because others may be silently judging my mechanical skills - but it cleans right up within a minute. (I also have an 1100 that'll do that and scare me into thinking I need to get back into the carbs. Then I restart the bike after an errand, and it's all going great - this happened just this morning, in fact.)

But "asthmatic bike syndrome" is probably/possibly a sign that you have some other issues. Hi-test fuel COULD be it. Bad fuel could DEFINITELY be it. (I wouldn't have believed the latter if it hadn't happened to me - with a fresh tank of fuel at not-my-normal service station. I flipped out, my heart sank, I rode around sounding like a total fool on a bike that ran like crap. New fuel, and all was well again. It could also be a problem in one/more of the carbs. I'd go back to the "new fuel" at 87 octane test - with an external fuel bottle. With a bit of luck, you'll be back in business.

Here's hoping it's all something simple!
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Smoke show

#13

Post by Sidecar Bob »

FWIW, with the sidecar attached mine can't lean more than a few degrees. It often smoked on startup with the GL1000 engine that was in it for over 20 years and it still does it occasionally with the GL1100 engine I installed 5 years ago.

The first thing I'd do is check the oil level and sniff the oil to make sure it isn't full of gas.

If the oil is OK I'd make sure it is smoke and not steam. It isn't uncommon for a head gasket to hold pressure at idle while the engine is cool but start to leak once it warms up. Open the right side of the shelter and look for bubbles in the coolant recovery tank when the "smoke" starts.
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Re: Smoke show

#14

Post by Mickster »

Did some more testing. Started it up and symptoms are the same. Asthma on the intake side and smoke-0-rama after warm up on the exhaust side. Raw oil on the exhaust muffler ends, both sides.

On a whim I took out the air filter, started it, and looking down I see raw fuel flowing into the plenum from what appears to be the right rear carb. Dang, what could be causing that? Stuck float?

Next I checked the oil level with the bike on the side stand and the level is at the top mark, on the center stand the sight glass is full so there is a bit too much oil in there. Is it enough to cause all this?

I'm going to drain the oil and look for signs of water. Is it possible water raised the oil level because I'm pretty sure when I did the oil change I did not overfill, but ya never know.

So, I would like to summon the guru's on this forum to help me out with these issues. My frustration is at the point of just dumping this entire bike.
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Smoke show

#15

Post by Sidecar Bob »

If there was fuel in the plenum it will can through one or more of the carbs and into the intake of one or more cylinder. If the intake valve is open the fuel will enter the carb and make its way past the end gaps of the rings into the crankcase, where it will combine with the oil.

This is why I said to sniff the oil.

AFAIK there are 2 ways that fuel can enter the plenum. It might be caused by a stuck float valve but I chased that for a while before discovering that several of the carb to plenum seals were leaking.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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