Electric Fuel Pump Mount

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cfairweather
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Electric Fuel Pump Mount

#1

Post by cfairweather »

I am back to working on my two 1975 GL1000 projects and got to thinking about mounting the electric fuel pumps. I usually use a piece of 1/4" aluminum, but this is always a challenge and time consuming. Since I have a nice 3D resin printer, I decided to design a bracket and print one. We soon will find out if this is a good idea or a bad idea. Right now, I am using FormLabs Grey Resin, but they have some better, more expensive resins available if needed. Every GL1000 electric fuel pump needs a primer button which allows you to fill the bowls before cranking. I was able to design a rectangular hole inside the bracket, and that is where the "momentary on" pushbutton switch will go. The wires will come out the small hole on the edge.
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I am waiting on the switches to arrive but will post updates on this project soon. I may make a kit if I like the results.
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ritalz
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump Mount

#2

Post by ritalz »

I'm confused. With me, the one of the main purposes of the electric fuel pump was that it would prime as soon as the key was turned on. That being said, is the primer really necessary? Just trying to understand and not be critical.
Al

2003 Goldwing Daily Rider
1975 Goldwing 'Max'
1984 Goldwing New Bagger Project
1976 Goldwing 'Grocery Getter' Sold
1985 Goldwing Interstate 'NCC-1985' sold
1981 Silverwing Sold
1982 Goldeing Project Sold
1981 Goldwing Parted Out
1983 Goldwing Project Sold
1973 CB500F Long Gone
1966 CL77 First Street Bike
http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery3/index.p ... ans/ritalz
cfairweather
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump Mount

#3

Post by cfairweather »

That is a good question. When I install an electric fuel pump, I also install a different oil pressure sensor that has a pressure switch in it. When there is oil pressure, the switch is closed and when there is no pressure, it is open. 12vdc goes to one side of the pressure switch and the other side goes to the pump. So, unless the engine is running, the pump will not operate for safety reasons. The momentary pushbutton switch will bypass the oil pressure switch and allow the pump to operate before the engine has oil pressure. Does that make sense? Modern vehicles do what you describe because there is circuitry to turn the pump on before it is started, but I have to keep this simple. The GL1000 carbs seem to have severe evaporation issues so if you let the bike sit for a few weeks, the carbs have to be refilled before it will start. The GL1000 starters get abused because of this problem. I believe this is one of the best modifications you can make to the GL1000.
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ritalz
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump Mount

#4

Post by ritalz »

It does make sense and thanks for the explanation. I didn't even consider this type of safety switch or even a tilt switch. The only time I did the electric pump was many years ago on a 76 I had for a short time.
Al

2003 Goldwing Daily Rider
1975 Goldwing 'Max'
1984 Goldwing New Bagger Project
1976 Goldwing 'Grocery Getter' Sold
1985 Goldwing Interstate 'NCC-1985' sold
1981 Silverwing Sold
1982 Goldeing Project Sold
1981 Goldwing Parted Out
1983 Goldwing Project Sold
1973 CB500F Long Gone
1966 CL77 First Street Bike
http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery3/index.p ... ans/ritalz
cfairweather
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump Mount

#5

Post by cfairweather »

The mount I am designing should work for the Facet Posi-Flow types and the cube design. I recommend keeping the pressure to about 3 psi or lower and a flow rate of at least 15 GPH. There are many electric fuel pumps that fall into these specifications, but they are hard to find. The Facet 40163 seems to be more available than the others on the short list below. I think K&N gets their pumps from Facet and I have tested the 810400 with good results. I have also used the Facet 40163 with excellent results. If you can't find any of these, you could look for another with 3 1/2 psi specifications to widen your search, but I personally would not go beyond 4 psi. My preference would be the 60210 or the 60212, but I don't see anyone selling them. You typically have to make an order of at least 30 to get them. Some of you may be concerned about the power draw and it is only about 1.6 amps. I just discovered the Holley 12-425 is available from Amazon. Facet probably makes this one.

K&N 810400 fuel pump 1 - 2 psi and 15 gph
Facet-Purolator Posi-Flow 60210 or 60212 fuel pump 1 - 2.5 psi 25 gph
Holley ‎12-425 1.5 - 2.5 psi 25 gph
Facet-Purolator Cube 40367 or 40352 1 - 2 psi and 15 gph
Facet-Purolator Cube 40163 1.5 - 2.5 psi and 17 gph
Last edited by cfairweather on Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
redglbx
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump Mount

#6

Post by redglbx »

This is a good thing and being that the OE mechanical fuel pumps are becoming rare and not common to find I suspect that this will become a common thing in the future, thanks for doing it CF !

A couple of thoughts I’ll add is that while prudent and proper the oil pressure cutoff really isn’t a big deal, on modern vehicles it is intended to serve 2 purposes, first to not allow the vehicle to run unless it has oil pressure which works great on a modern injected vehicle because there is no reservoir of fuel vs on our wings you have fuel bowls and if you shut the fuel supply off (petcock) most of these bikes will easily run for 10 or minutes before they run the fuel bowls dry.

The main reason for the oil pressure cutoff switch is is you have an accident that the engine will presumably be off (presumably) so the fuel pump will not keep pumping fuel for a fire hazard. Great idea but it really doesn’t work that way.

On the quicker start-up, this should be a big help ! I started my (winter wake-up) 76 yesterday because I wanted to run compression & leakdown checks on it before I get my knee fixed this week. I generally turn the petcock on and pop the gas cap open for a couple minutes which usually gravity fills the carbs mostly. Then do some 10second cranks, yesterday took 3 10 second cranks before it fired up & ran.

After doing the compression & leakdown testing I shut the petcock off and ran the carbs dry which is something I highly recommend if your bike is going to sit for any length of time, this includes running it on the choke once the fuel level is low enough in the bowls, do this until it simply won’t run. I also highly recommend you keep your bike/battery on a tender so your battery is at its proper cranking level, it’ll start much easier with a good cranking ability plus a hotter spark.

Anyway that’s my thoughts on this. I hope CF is kind enough to make a stock of these mounting plates to sell to the rest of us, one last thought is that you may want to add a ground wire from the pump to a good ground as the plastic mount may not give it a good ground path, but a simple ground wire ensures that.
Red 1976 oe owner
1976 LTD restored
1980 CBX , in the que, to fix the ignorant heavy handed owner
1981 CBX
1977 CB750 K7
2014 FJR OE owner, sold
1980 GL1100
1984 GL1200 naked
1969 CL350, in the que
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CYBORG
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump Mount

#7

Post by CYBORG »

ritalz wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 11:08 pm I'm confused. With me, the one of the main purposes of the electric fuel pump was that it would prime as soon as the key was turned on. That being said, is the primer really necessary? Just trying to understand and not be critical.
I have my pump come on as soon as the key is turned. I understand the safty aspect. And I have had accidents with this system. I also don't worry about only having two tires, and experiencing a flat at speed.
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump Mount

#8

Post by Sidecar Bob »

FWIW, the failsafe setup described would have the same basic effect as the vacuum petcocks used on many bikes to shut off the fuel when the engine isn't running. In the CX/GL500/650 world the fuel in the carbs evaporates very fast and hard starting after only a few days without running is common so a lot of us have replaced our vacuum petcocks with a non vacuum type to remedy that.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
cfairweather
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump Mount

#9

Post by cfairweather »

I received the switches that will be used and here is a picture. I redesigned the mount a few times but now I am ready to print a bunch of them.
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redglbx
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump Mount

#10

Post by redglbx »

Good job (again) CF !
Red 1976 oe owner
1976 LTD restored
1980 CBX , in the que, to fix the ignorant heavy handed owner
1981 CBX
1977 CB750 K7
2014 FJR OE owner, sold
1980 GL1100
1984 GL1200 naked
1969 CL350, in the que
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump Mount

#11

Post by Sidecar Bob »

It's a nice looking setup but if I was changing to an electric pump I think I'd try to find a way to locate it somewhere else.

I understand mechanically why they put the original one there but I don't know how many times I banged my shin on it over the years. (It's even worse now that I've mounted the diverter valve for the 2nd tank on top of it.)
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
redglbx
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump Mount

#12

Post by redglbx »

What about the tach drive Bob ? Just mill tha adapter down and add a block-off ? I agree that I’ve banged my shin on that a bunch of times so you could gain a little there,,, but CF’s setup looks so clean ! Just curious on what you did.
Red 1976 oe owner
1976 LTD restored
1980 CBX , in the que, to fix the ignorant heavy handed owner
1981 CBX
1977 CB750 K7
2014 FJR OE owner, sold
1980 GL1100
1984 GL1200 naked
1969 CL350, in the que
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump Mount

#13

Post by Sidecar Bob »

I rebuilt the mechanical pump so it is still fully in the way. And a few years later I added a 2nd tank and a valve to select between them, which I mounted above the pump making things worse (it's all in the How a motorcycle evolves thread linked in my signature).

I like your idea about milling the mount and blocking it off. Even just blocking it would be an improvement.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
redglbx
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump Mount

#14

Post by redglbx »

Yeah, I was thinking you came up with the new diaphragm for rebuilding the pumps, I bought a couple.

As you said though I have banged my shin on that things numerous times, I have given thought of going to an electric pump just so I could cut the Mount back and block it off but do it carefully so to keep the tach drive in tact or do a electronic tach but that wouldn’t match the oe unless you could find someone who would make a matching face ($$$) ,,, just random thoughts that I had, particularly when I was having serious tach gauge squeal years ago. And when I was considering building a custom of some kind.
Red 1976 oe owner
1976 LTD restored
1980 CBX , in the que, to fix the ignorant heavy handed owner
1981 CBX
1977 CB750 K7
2014 FJR OE owner, sold
1980 GL1100
1984 GL1200 naked
1969 CL350, in the que
User avatar
Sidecar Bob
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump Mount

#15

Post by Sidecar Bob »

The tach drive wouldn't be an issue for me. After messing around with the instruments on the winter machine for a few years (including building an inexpensive car tach into the housing from a bike tach and having it fail in about a year) I went all electronic on the 'Wing at the first sign of squeal.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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