Strange Elec Power Loss, Melted Neg Terminal

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NotSoLilCrippseys
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Strange Elec Power Loss, Melted Neg Terminal

#1

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

After running reliably for about 18 months or so - and nearly 10k on the odometer - earlier this week the Blue Phoenix suffered an odd "no dash lights" power loss. It's been starting/running fine the last few starts, so it's even stranger than I thought.

From what I read in some searches in the NGW forums, I have a few possible issues to work through:
  • Weak Battery. I'll get her fully charged. I'm not convinced this is the issue.
  • Solenoid/30 amp fuse. I'll pull it, clean the terminals, insert a new fuse for good measure.
  • Loose connection up at the ignition.
I'm also going to check to voltage with the bike running to confirm that I've got a working charging system.

If there's another one, please do offer it up.

I've had some other issues this week and have yet to really dig into the problem.

First time I lost power was Tuesday morning. I've occasionally jumped it to start on cold mornings, as I've not been diligent with the trickler as temps have dropped. And it's been cold at night. OK. Did that, and she roared to life as normal. I noted some odd bucking about 1/4 mile from home, and she died. While rolling, I pop started her. By the 1/2 mile mark and approaching a stop, she died. No lights. I pushed her to the corner station.

I thought 30 amp fuse. Pulled it. Looked good. Put it back in. Bike started right up. Smiles. Not wanting more trouble farther from home, I rode back to the house. When I got there, she was sounding awful. I should note that it was so cold that I couldn't get the starter clutch to do the job on my '82, even though it'll often kick in after the second or third try in frosty weather. As my ST's rear brake still needed attention before I could ride it, I took the truck to work. (Joy.)

After work, I tried again. Lights on. Good. Cranked. Not enough juice to start. Then no lights at all. I pull 30 amp fuse. No issue. Put it back in. Lights on. Hmm. Strange. Maybe a fuse with a tiny crack in it, or perhaps the solenoid has corrosion in it that creates issues. (It's natural habitat is not all that well protected from the elements.)

Wednesday morning I hooked up my booster again because it was cold. Mind you, I'm not spending much time with the pack on the battery. I start the bike, reach down to disconnect the leads, and I notice the negative terminal is melted! Whoa.
PXL_20221124_134835013.MP.jpg
PXL_20221124_134835013.MP.jpg (205.82 KiB) Viewed 551 times
I'm guessing some sort of short occurred in the way I hooked up the leads. I'm also thinking it's more coincidence than symptom of the problem I had with the power failures. (I use that same pack whenever I have a low battery situation on a bike to get a quick start; it's pretty reliable.) But anything could be related to almost anything.

Today she fired right up without issue - and on the battery. No evident issues at the terminals.
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our 1983 GL1100I rescue gone naked.

In the Stable and Ridable
1992 ST1100 - my longer haul tourer
1992 XJ600S - son's streetfighter
1987 VFR700 - son's latest, in blue/silver
1983 - GL1100I - naked Blue Phoenix (son's, really)
1982 GL1100I - naked bagger Cabernet
1979 GL1000 - Ginger Lynn, but not that Ginger Lynn (Wing and a Prayer)
1978 CB550K - son's cafe (carb issues still vex)

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1979 GL1000 - Confirmed one owner, with original paperwork. Vetter fairing and bags, off the road in dry, heated storage for 35 years.

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Re: Strange Elec Power Loss, Melted Neg Terminal

#2

Post by gltriker »

Scroll down this page to Similar Topics. The second Topic is

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=52906
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

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'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
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Re: Strange Elec Power Loss, Melted Neg Terminal

#3

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

Cliff. Thanks. I missed that thread when I surfaced several about the power loss issue - which was my main focus.

Terminal issue happened in the driveway, while using a booster pack to aid the battery on a start.

It's early days, but I topped off the battery, cleaned contacts, and things seem normal. I'll be watching that bike with a jaundiced eye, and not taking her any distance for a bit.
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our 1983 GL1100I rescue gone naked.

In the Stable and Ridable
1992 ST1100 - my longer haul tourer
1992 XJ600S - son's streetfighter
1987 VFR700 - son's latest, in blue/silver
1983 - GL1100I - naked Blue Phoenix (son's, really)
1982 GL1100I - naked bagger Cabernet
1979 GL1000 - Ginger Lynn, but not that Ginger Lynn (Wing and a Prayer)
1978 CB550K - son's cafe (carb issues still vex)

Active Project(s)
1979 GL1000 - Confirmed one owner, with original paperwork. Vetter fairing and bags, off the road in dry, heated storage for 35 years.

Sold
Not lookin' back to avoid regrets
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Re: Strange Elec Power Loss, Melted Neg Terminal

#4

Post by ericheath »

If just checking voltages after startup, you need to check again after a few minutes of running. A failing regulator might show a perfect 13.5 to 14.5 volts right after startup, but can continue to climb as the bike idles or is ridden.

See post: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=76123&p=793734#p793734
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Re: Strange Elec Power Loss, Melted Neg Terminal

#5

Post by Fred Camper »

I would not give the ignition switch a clean bill of health. They often result in intermediate performance, yet the switch is unlikely the cause of the melted terminal. A short on the starter cable or just the starter is the most likely cause of the melted terminal if not the booster but personally not sure how the booster could do that.
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Re: Strange Elec Power Loss, Melted Neg Terminal

#6

Post by redglbx »

On my 76 the oe regulator would charge to as high as 16v that would usually boil the water out of the battery and sometimes kill it but it never melted the battery terminal. I also had the cooked 3 wire connector from the stator which I then just soldered the leads together.

I ended up putting a mosfet regulator/rectifier from Ricks and now it pretty much stays at a stabile rate, very little variance, it was a bit expensive but well worth it.

The electrical systems on these seem a bit crude imho, the stator on my 76 died within the first 5mi from when I bought it new and had to be replaced, just not all that good, ,, but when they work, they seem run forever pretty much, but they have their quirks.
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Re: Strange Elec Power Loss, Melted Neg Terminal

#7

Post by tlbranth »

Those connectors on the battery look pretty funky. Could be providing resistance => heat.
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Re: Strange Elec Power Loss, Melted Neg Terminal

#8

Post by Sidecar Bob »

I was thinking along the same lines as Terry. Electrical connections get hot because dirt or corrosion causes resistance and when you pass current through a resistance it develops power, which has to dissipate as heat (sometimes a connection that isn't tight enough will act like a resistance too).

Take the bolt out of the negative terminal, scrub the lugs (& maybe the top of the battery terminal) with Scotchbrite and contact cleaner until they shine and then put it back together and it should stop getting hot.
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Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
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Re: Strange Elec Power Loss, Melted Neg Terminal

#9

Post by Rat »

Not sure from the pic … but could are you close to the coast ? Salt air can increase corrosion …

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Re: Strange Elec Power Loss, Melted Neg Terminal

#10

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

Thanks, all. I am 2 miles from the Atlantic, so corrosion is definitely an issue to be concerned about.

I've put the Phoenix in the shed for winter, but she's in a spot where I can move her and tinker. She needs a fork seal, for example, and this electrical thing merits further attention.

I DID find that the negative terminal screw had backed out a bit and was loose. I tightened her down and have not had an issue since. Admittedly, a week is not a lot of real world testing.

Occam would tell me that the simplest explanation is probably the best one on that incident. But that doesn't mean I don't have other limitations running through a 40-year old wiring harness and connections. I'm going to pull those connections apart, clean terminals all the way up to the ignition switch, etc.

Right now, though, I'm prioritizing some work on a couple other bikes, especially the Wing and a Prayer '79 that's occupying the main "bay" in the shed with no front end.
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our 1983 GL1100I rescue gone naked.

In the Stable and Ridable
1992 ST1100 - my longer haul tourer
1992 XJ600S - son's streetfighter
1987 VFR700 - son's latest, in blue/silver
1983 - GL1100I - naked Blue Phoenix (son's, really)
1982 GL1100I - naked bagger Cabernet
1979 GL1000 - Ginger Lynn, but not that Ginger Lynn (Wing and a Prayer)
1978 CB550K - son's cafe (carb issues still vex)

Active Project(s)
1979 GL1000 - Confirmed one owner, with original paperwork. Vetter fairing and bags, off the road in dry, heated storage for 35 years.

Sold
Not lookin' back to avoid regrets
User avatar
Sidecar Bob
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Re: Strange Elec Power Loss, Melted Neg Terminal

#11

Post by Sidecar Bob »

The loose bolt was probably the culprit.

I first encountered that kind of issue about 45 years ago when some friends were over and one fellow's car wouldn't start when he went to leave. Another fellow who knew more about cars told us to check that the battery cables were done up tight before getting out the jumper cables and sure enough one of them was loose enough that you could turn it on the post and once it was tightened the car started easily. I've come across numerous similar cases over the years.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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Re: Strange Elec Power Loss, Melted Neg Terminal

#12

Post by redglbx »

I would clean the connections really well, they don’t look good, maybe even a new ground cable as it looks pretty grungy and finally I’d coat it with dielectric grease to keep it clean, really any grease will work fine. My .02
Red 1976 oe owner
1976 LTD restored
1980 CBX , in the que, to fix the ignorant heavy handed owner
1981 CBX
1977 CB750 K7
2014 FJR OE owner, sold
1980 GL1100
1984 GL1200 naked
1969 CL350, in the que
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