timing belts pulley

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Francis
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timing belts pulley

#1

Post by Francis »

Well, I don't know if I did something wrong but, I got the timing mark at T 1 and the left pulley mark is off by one tooth, I broke the right tensioner spring(all rusted) last week when I was going to change the old belts so I stopped there on the belt change .
Got some springs in the mail this AM so was going to continue changing belts when I noticed this...!? Checked the timing mark and it was still on T1 the "up" is up, right side was on the mark, well maybe a hair off( might of been the angle I was looking from) but, like I said the left is one tooth out?
If I read the shop manual correctly, it's not supposed to be that way.....something is out of wack somewhere !

What gives?? I'll wait to hear from the more experienced before I go any further....I was going to start it and finish the engine flush but, maybe I shouldn't till I know more!! don't feel like doing an engine re-built ! ....lol

Thanks in advance :)
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gltriker
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Re: timing belts pulley

#2

Post by gltriker »

1st we have a question for you.
Are you orienting the pulley locations as viewed from the seated riding position, or looking at the front of the pulleys, themselves? Oriented from Seated is correct.

The right side timing belt pulley is the difficult one to work with because a cam lobe and valve spring is working against you.

Take a photo of the timing belt pulley and the worrisome timing marks and we can tell you whether its misaligned or not.
Last edited by gltriker on Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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cfairweather
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Re: timing belts pulley

#3

Post by cfairweather »

The pulleys should be right on the mark, but you have to put your head at exactly the same level when viewing the marks. I use a metal ruler and align it on the pulley. You will notice there is another mark on the opposite side of the pulley so you can align across the pulley on these two marks. The ruler should align to the case mark. There are several threads that provide other tips. Here is one that might help:
https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3544
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Re: timing belts pulley

#4

Post by LuckyEddie »

I have found that the crank pulley can easily move out of alignment while fighting with the cams. Make sure it is at TDC. I then engage the transmission to help hold in proper alignment, and even with these precautions, triple check everything.
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Francis
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Re: timing belts pulley

#5

Post by Francis »

gltriker wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:02 pm 1st we have a question for you.
Are you orienting the pulley locations as viewed from the seated riding position, or looking at the front of the pulleys, themselves? Oriented from Seated is correct.

The right side timing belt pulley is the difficult one to work with because a cam lobe and valve spring is working against you.

Take a photo of the timing belt pulley and the worrisome timing marks and we can tell you whether its misaligned or not.
OK, there you go. The timing mark doesn't seem to in line but, trust me it is ,bad angle on the pic, if you put your head in there like I do its right on the money in line
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joecoolsuncle
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Re: timing belts pulley

#6

Post by joecoolsuncle »

your T mark is off.
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Re: timing belts pulley

#7

Post by cfairweather »

I have another tip for you. After you get the belts on, you want to check the tension to make sure both of them are the same. The springs are designed to get the perfect amount of tension on the belts before you tighten up the bolts, but I have found they don't always work perfectly. Check the left side (as you sit on the bike), after you have everything lined up on the marks. Get a good feel for how much tension is on the belt. Then, turn the crank 360 using the big nut on the small pulley. Yes, the big pulleys will line up with the wrong marks, but we are only checking the amount of tension for this procedure. Now check the tension on the right belt. It should feel like the left side. This is important because the timing is affected by the amount of tension on the belts. You will notice that the big pulley turns slightly as you apply tension to the belt. If your marks are not lined up exactly with each other, it might be due to incorrect belt tension.
Last edited by cfairweather on Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Francis
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Re: timing belts pulley

#8

Post by Francis »

joecoolsuncle wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:58 am your T mark is off.
No it's not, that's just the angle of the phone cam, if you look at it from the top right above it , it's right on.
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Re: timing belts pulley

#9

Post by redglbx »

Great suggestions above, like Ed says above make sure your t1 is lined up and then stick it in gear, it’ll help. And yes I believe that the left cam (as you sit on the bike) is off a tooth, loosen the tensioner and put a 10mm box wrench on the cam bolt on the pulley (if you can find one, they always seem to be lost) slip the belt off and rotate with the wrench to get it timed right.

Retighten the tensioner and recheck the marks, setting the timing belts up can sometimes be a total PITA but I’ll add that if it is indeed off only 1 tooth it should have done no damage, so just line it up correctly and enjoy once it’s back together.
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gltriker
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Re: timing belts pulley

#10

Post by gltriker »

Francis wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:25 am
joecoolsuncle wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:58 am your T mark is off.
No it's not, that's just the angle of the phone cam, if you look at it from the top right above it , it's right on.
Ýes, it is difficult to get a straight shot into the timing hole.
I was successful with my old cell phone to get this one taken from a greater distance than usual . Pretty much agrees with your photo, too. tumb2

Disregard the T-2 - this photo was grabbed from my 1975 engine leakdown testing post
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Last edited by gltriker on Tue Nov 22, 2022 2:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Francis
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Re: timing belts pulley

#11

Post by Francis »

cfairweather wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:05 am I have another tip for you. After you get the belts on, you want to check the tension to make sure both of them are the same. The springs are designed to get the perfect amount of tension on the belts before you tighten up the bolts, but I have found they don't always work perfectly. Check the left side (as you sit on the bike), after you have everything lined up on the marks. Get a good feel for how much tension is on the belt. Then, turn the crank 360 using the big nut on the small pulley. Yes, the big pulleys will line up with the wrong marks, but we are only checking the amount of tension for this procedure. Now check the tension on the right belt. It should feel like the left side. This is important because the timing is affected by the amount of tension on the belts. You will notice that the big pulley turns slightly as you apply tension to the belt. If your marks are not lined up exactly with each other, it might be due to incorrect belt tension.
Maybe I should change both springs, I broke 1, have equal tension that way, at work right now....shshshhhhhh
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Re: timing belts pulley

#12

Post by Francis »

Thanks everyone, I'll do what was suggested, I'll be home later today, I'll follow up on this thread .
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Lucien Harpress
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Re: timing belts pulley

#13

Post by Lucien Harpress »

My only add to this thread, and take it with a grain of salt:

I did my belts not too long ago. As stated, getting the pulleys EXACTLY on the reference marks is ideal. But I have had times where, for whatever reason, the marks are ever-so-slightly off. Thing is, there was always a "closest" tooth. Things weren't exact, but there was an obvious tooth on the pulley the belt needed to be on to get closest.

In addition, while new springs to set the tension are important (and I'm definitely recommending getting this sorted correctly), the tensioner pulleys only take up the slack of the untensioned side of the belt. The straight run of the belt is the important half, and you can set this correctly without the tensioner pulleys.

Basically, lock the crank pulley at the right position (marking the crank pulley helps), pull the straight run of the belt to the cam pulley (held in the right position), then use the tensioner and spring to "clean up" the excess belt on the backside.

And, as always, if you think you got it, spin the engine over by hand (sans spark plugs) a couple times to check if anything hits.

I'm looking forward to your update. Good luck!
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Re: timing belts pulley

#14

Post by cfairweather »

Lucien- I agree with you, the springs are not a requirement, but they definitely help. I have found when the marks are slightly off, things work fine, but it will run better when the marks are perfectly lined up. When you see the marks slightly off, try tensioning the belts again. I could live without the springs, but they help get it close, I think this was Honda's best shot at getting the tension close enough to work, but I can do better. When the marks align, the tension is correct. Be sure to look at the marks at exactly the same level and with a straight edge across the pulley or it may fool you. I totally agree with double checking (triple check is good too) this by turning the crank and rechecking the marks just to make sure it is correct.
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Re: timing belts pulley

#15

Post by joecoolsuncle »

Lucien Harpress wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:29 pm My only add to this thread, and take it with a grain of salt:

I did my belts not too long ago. As stated, getting the pulleys EXACTLY on the reference marks is ideal. But I have had times where, for whatever reason, the marks are ever-so-slightly off. Thing is, there was always a "closest" tooth. Things weren't exact, but there was an obvious tooth on the pulley the belt needed to be on to get closest.

In addition, while new springs to set the tension are important (and I'm definitely recommending getting this sorted correctly), the tensioner pulleys only take up the slack of the untensioned side of the belt. The straight run of the belt is the important half, and you can set this correctly without the tensioner pulleys.

Basically, lock the crank pulley at the right position (marking the crank pulley helps), pull the straight run of the belt to the cam pulley (held in the right position), then use the tensioner and spring to "clean up" the excess belt on the backside.

And, as always, if you think you got it, spin the engine over by hand (sans spark plugs) a couple times to check if anything hits.

I'm looking forward to your update. Good luck!
very well said! uget 3 atta-boys!
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