78 GL1000 gears won't engage

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redsrback6
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78 GL1000 gears won't engage

#1

Post by redsrback6 »

Hello All,

I'm bringing back to life a 1978 GL1000 which has sat the better part of 10 years, related to new stator and "renewed" fuel tank on separate occasions. Last ran around 5 years ago, a mechanic had also just rebuilt the clutch, or at least replaced the springs. It ran, and I know it had 1st gear because I drove it off the trailer into the garage. Unfortunately, the next day I found pin holes in the tank, so I removed it and had a radiator shop renew it. I also serviced the final drive and back wheel during this time.

Fast forward 5 years I've got it all back together with fresh gas, all new fluids, new battery, and a ton else. Temporarily I had used a Castrol part-synthetic oil but never started it. I found the pistons/cylinders were very stiff, so I delicately and patiently worked with them for a couple weeks using a couple shots of MMO and fogging oil. Allowed it to sit some more before draining the part-synthetic oil and re-filling with correct Honda 10W40.

Next, I noticed the clutch lever was stiff, so it has been lubricated as well and seems to be working. However, I noticed the mechanic who did the clutch service routed the cable incorrectly according to video this site. Since it seems to be working okay, I thought re-routing can wait till after I get it running again.

Yesterday I decided to turn the ignition, bike was in neutral during storage, then I put it in 1st gear or so I thought. My plan was to put in 5th gear and rotate the wheel a bit to further lubricate pistons. The neutral light went out anyway, and it felt right clicking down. However, it will only work back up to neutral, no 2nd - 5th gears. Next, I put it back in 1st and tried to roll the wheel (on center stand) but to my surprise it rotates freely! When I remove the oil filler cap, I can see the shaft drive rotating (neutral or in gear) but the motor isn't moving. So, even though the neutral light goes out it isn't in any gear.

Consider the clutch service, years of sitting, the partly synthetic oil, stiff but now freed lever, and the incorrectly routed cable... can anyone help me figure out what is wrong with the drive mechanism?

I've still not hit the starter button to crank it over. I sb able to turn the stator bolt if necessary. Just read where using 5th gear to rotate the pistons was a stronger method.

Incidentally I found a similar Kawasaki post that suggested the clutch discs being stuck together. IDK, he mentions trying to drop it into first without using the lever while the wheel is spinning. I've not yet tried that pending any feedback here.

Any help is greatly appreciated.
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pidjones
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Re: 78 GL1000 gears won't engage

#2

Post by pidjones »

Won't be stuck together - then it would always be engaged. Place it on the center stand, rotate the rear wheel and try to select second while rotating.
"Love 'em all.... let God sort 'em out!"
Ex 2006 GL1800 - the Black Pearl SOLD! to make room for:
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1972 Triumph T150V Trident rescue - finished and FOR SALE!
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1978 GL1000 with '75 engine - the Hunley
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Ex 1979 GL1000
Ex '79 CB750F rat bike
Ex '86 SEi
Ex '77 GL1000
Ex '76 RD400
Ex '72 Penton 125 set up for flat track
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Re: 78 GL1000 gears won't engage

#3

Post by Whiskerfish »

yep what Pid said. Also during your work was the front cover (where the water pump is) off at all??
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redsrback6
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Re: 78 GL1000 gears won't engage

#4

Post by redsrback6 »

Thanks guys! I'm assuming you mean while the wheel is rotating, use the normal clutch and try to find the gears? Remember so far I've not even found 1st gear. So, I'll spin the wheel while in neutral and hopefully find 1st gear, then continue.

It is long and complicated but yes, the cover was off. After pulling the engine to replace the stator, I replaced the water pump just as a proactive measure. If I recall the cover had to come off because the water pump is bolted in from inside. I was super careful and used a very good "how to" document, Pistol Pete even provided me pointers. However, this was during the stator replacement phase possibly 8 years ago. After I replaced the pump and cover, I paid a local mechanic to install the new stator and put everything back together including him rebuilding the clutch, so he said. He gave me back the old springs anyway. So, he put the engine and Pete's serviced carbs back in the bike. I watched him test drive it before I brought it home. How much shifting he did IDK. I only drove it up the driveway into the garage.

Following day is when I found the pin holes in the fuel tank so immediately began taking the backend apart. This was about 5 years ago now. While waiting on the radiator shop and collision center to renew and paint the tank, I serviced the back wheel and final drive. I also removed the swingarm to paint it. Engine I left untouched filled with oil and coolant.

I put the swingarm, tank, drive and wheel all back together several years ago but the project sat again after that. I was very careful with the drive shaft, circlips, etc. Again, I can see the shaft rotating. Several months ago, I began to put everything else back together including all new fluids, plugs, replacing after-market exhausts back to original, and just getting it road worthy again.

One last note of interest. Phase 1 the stator phase, I had drained the engine of oil and coolant. Cleaned the oil screen and every drop of old oil in the bottom of the casing that I could reach. It sat dry for quite a while before I had the mechanic put the engine back in the bike. That may not have been good for the clutch? But again, the mechanic knew this and rebuilding the clutch was part of what he did.

Way more than you guys care to know!
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Re: 78 GL1000 gears won't engage

#5

Post by Whiskerfish »

The reason I asked about the front cover is that the clearance between it and the shift linkage is a hair's breadth. Reusing a OEM gasket or using an aftermarket can remove that clearance causing the shift linkage not to work properly.
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
redsrback6
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Re: 78 GL1000 gears won't engage

#6

Post by redsrback6 »

Gotcha. Early on I did purchase some junk after-market kits given that's what the vintage shops sell, but if I recall I ended up getting all OEM before any work got done especially that gasket, and I actually did that piece myself. Will look through my old leftovers to at least make sure I don't still have that gasket in OEM. Definitely another good tip to know though I'll keep it in mind.
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Re: 78 GL1000 gears won't engage

#7

Post by cfairweather »

Under the clutch cover, there are three ball bearings. The plate and the balls may get in a bind if the arm is torqued too far. The clutch would be engaged and basically in a locked condition. If so, you can loosen the adjuster locknut and loosen the adjuster screw to get some pressure off of the plate. This will allow you to manually turn the arm back to the normal position. The reason I bring this up is because you mentioned the cable was routed incorrectly, which might cause this to happen. Another possibility is the clutch and/or cable may be way out of adjustment.

Please reroute the cable and remove the two bolts for the clutch cover adjuster to make sure the arm is moving freely. While it is off, do a complete adjustment per the manual.

Some of the basic steps:
1. Loosen the handlebar clutch lever adjustment to make it as loose as possible.
2. Adjust the clutch from under the clutch cover using the screw and locknut. Basically, you loosen the locknut and loosen the screw a bit and then turn the screw clockwise until you feel it start to tighten. At that point, stop and back the screw off about 1/8 of a turn counterclockwise. Then tighten the locknut.
3. Adjust the cable at the lower adjustment to take almost all the slack out, but not tight. You don't want pressure to be applied to the arm. Then check the lever to make sure it works correctly. You can make minor adjustments at the lower adjustment and the lever adjustment. You will need someone to help you pull the lever while you watch the arm.
redsrback6
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Re: 78 GL1000 gears won't engage

#8

Post by redsrback6 »

Okay thank you cfair for this information. I'll remove the clutch plate and check the movement, then hopefully I can loosen the handlebar end, free the cable, back it out, and reroute it. Just hope it is the correct cable. Depending on what I see I may try what pid and whisker mentions but will still plan on the routing and adjustment. Again, thank you all. Will report back.
Shadowjack
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Re: 78 GL1000 gears won't engage

#9

Post by Shadowjack »

A wrong cable route won't make it shift funny, but it sure can make it hard to pull the lever.
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Re: 78 GL1000 gears won't engage

#10

Post by pidjones »

Once again, I don't believe clutch engagement is your problem. Just getting the gears to mesh. BTW, the carbs should be perfect - don't change Pete's adjustment if you can possibly avoid it. He did great work and tested each set on an engine in his shop before shipping. A real gentleman, too. I have one of his "projects" that he never got to as my next project.
"Love 'em all.... let God sort 'em out!"
Ex 2006 GL1800 - the Black Pearl SOLD! to make room for:
2021 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited Dark Chalk Metallic
1975 Red GL1000 project - ex Pistol Pete project
1972 Triumph T150V Trident rescue - finished and FOR SALE!
1976 Yamaha RD400c
1978 GL1000 with '75 engine - the Hunley
Ex 1978 GL1000
Ex 1979 GL1000
Ex '79 CB750F rat bike
Ex '86 SEi
Ex '77 GL1000
Ex '76 RD400
Ex '72 Penton 125 set up for flat track
Ex '73 RD250
Ex '68 TR6C - chopped
redsrback6
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Re: 78 GL1000 gears won't engage

#11

Post by redsrback6 »

Thanks pid, sure hope so. Pete was so darn good to me. His help went far beyond carburetors. Today I removed the clutch cover and observed the movement, which looked fine to me. I did disconnect the lever and reroute the cable though. He had it routed between the left fork and headstock, around, up and over the cross bar at the front of shelter, then followed the 45 degree part of the frame in between the shelter and breather box. Maybe not bad but it was very tight. Also might've interfered with steering. Definitely got in the way trying to put the covers on. I had to loosen the breather box to squeeze the cable down after backing it out enough to go under the cross bar through the triangle with tach. Now it's out of the way, isn't as tight, looks much better, and isn't quite as hard to pull. Should be able to try the gears again tomorrow. Appreciate all you guys!
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Re: 78 GL1000 gears won't engage

#12

Post by redsrback6 »

Sorry for not responding sooner. After rerouting the cable it dropped down into 1st gear with normal clutch operation first attempt. Wheel was definitely in drive. Upon attempting to go 2nd I don't think it went because down shifting brought me back to neutral. I started to play around and push the wheel but was very difficult being in drive, plugs in, etc. Just decided 1st was a good sign I'd mess with it after I get it running.

Btw, my renewed gas tank drain plug appears to have an ever so slight seep to it. It's been a week since filling up the tank. I'd been checking multiple times each day no sign of leaks. The next day after rerouting the cable there was a gas smell in the garage and it had been a couple days since last checked. A trace of gas showed up. After wiping it once nothing shows up on the rag, but if you stick a little ribbon of newspaper against back the side of the bolt you can just barely see a spec of moisture. I had used the Permatex high performance thread sealer with surface prep, years ago to seal it. Maybe should've used the aviation #3 IDK. Right now I just have a string (literally that thin) tied around the bolt, seems to be enough to evaporate it so doesn't collect. When I get ready to mess with it, I may first try to tighten it a fraction to see what that does, before I drain it and try the other sealant.

So today I decided to try and crank it over. The starter sounded fine so hopefully pistons/cylinders are lubed good enough. I tried about 4 times at about 5-6 cranks each just giving it a break in between and not laying on the starter. Well... between all that and all the times I turned on the ignition checking earlier for neutral, etc. guess I ran the battery down so currently have it charging. Hope to try again later. It seems to be firing, wants to turn over but just won't catch yet. I have the choke out but seems more promising when I give it a slight throttle twist. I've had the gas turned on for a day now. Perhaps it just hasn't got the gas it needs yet. I do have a new fuel pump but read where about the only time they go bad when the rubber diaphragm leaks so I've held off, just trying to keep everything as original as possible unless I absolutely need to replace. Hopefully better luck later.
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Re: 78 GL1000 gears won't engage

#13

Post by gltriker »

redsrback6 wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 2:37 pm
I've had the gas turned on for a day now.
Perhaps it just hasn't got the gas it needs yet. I do have a new fuel pump but read where about the only time they go bad when the rubber diaphragm leaks so I've held off, just trying to keep everything as original as possible unless I absolutely need to replace. Hopefully better luck later.
good advice to reduce probability of accidentally 'hydrolocking' a cylinder ;)
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Re: 78 GL1000 gears won't engage

#14

Post by pidjones »

Yes, turn the gas off unless running the engine. Gravity fills the bowls poorly, and not at all if below ~1/2 tank. Full choke and crank 10 seconds, wait 20 for starter to cool. Repeat and expect it to try to run after 4-5 tries. Should catch and run then. The pump is very slow at filling the bowls.
"Love 'em all.... let God sort 'em out!"
Ex 2006 GL1800 - the Black Pearl SOLD! to make room for:
2021 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited Dark Chalk Metallic
1975 Red GL1000 project - ex Pistol Pete project
1972 Triumph T150V Trident rescue - finished and FOR SALE!
1976 Yamaha RD400c
1978 GL1000 with '75 engine - the Hunley
Ex 1978 GL1000
Ex 1979 GL1000
Ex '79 CB750F rat bike
Ex '86 SEi
Ex '77 GL1000
Ex '76 RD400
Ex '72 Penton 125 set up for flat track
Ex '73 RD250
Ex '68 TR6C - chopped
redsrback6
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Re: 78 GL1000 gears won't engage

#15

Post by redsrback6 »

Thanks guys! Yes, I'd come across that Randakk tip to close the petcock when not in use, will definitely plan on practicing that. Being the first attempt, I just didn't know where I was at filling the bowls. Anyway, it has been turned off. I plan to try again in the morning, battery is charged and hooked back up. Pid thanks also for the startup instructions.

When it rains it pours though... unfortunately bowl #3 has leaked a few drops of gas. This was a fear that I hoped would not come about, I'd been monitoring. Yes, Pete did the carbs but the bike was filled with gas and started before I found the pin holes in the fuel tank and removed it for repair. Well, I never drained the old fuel from the carbs. Should've left well enough alone but a couple months ago I tried to drain anything that might be left in the bowls. Don't recall if Pete replaced those drain screws or not but they are so darn tight I was barely able to budge the screws. Each would turn less than a 1/4 turn then just stopped, so I re-tightened and said the heck with it... HOPING I didn't disturb the seals. I'd rigged up a 3/8 flat impact bit and filed the tip down with my dremel to fit that big slot perfectly, fits into 8mm socket. So now I'll be shopping for new seals and/or screws. I just tried to tighten it again but doubt it moved, will see. So, this may halt my work for a bit. Also hate the thought of trying to remove the old screw based on other threads I read.

Feeling pretty darn low at the moment. Sorry pid/guys, I realize we've drifted from the gears.
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