Building a Lithium Battery

[Mike-C]

Good Evening Folks;
My Wing looks like it is going to need a new battery for the upcoming season and I am thinking about building a 'dry' (ie lithium or ni-cad) type battery for it. I'll need 20AMPS and about 350CCA to do the job. Any ideas from the assembled brain trust? From my experience, Wings tend to over charge batteries, any advice on that and how that would affect a Lithium or similar battery?
Mike Coleman
'84 Wing-Lite (ex-Aspencade)
'84 (un-Terstate)
'84 Standard (as yet un-named)
'96 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 (The Vulcanator)

[robin1731]

Scroll down and read some of the similar topics.

[Mike-C]

Hi Robin;
I looked in the archives and did not see anything too scary, but having read the topics below, I think I will stay with the AGM that I presently have. Reasonably priced and no battery acid overspray on the bottom of the bike. Thanks.
Mike Coleman
'84 Wing-Lite (ex-Aspencade)
'84 (un-Terstate)
'84 Standard (as yet un-named)
'96 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 (The Vulcanator)

[ericheath]

My memory is thinking EHE had a how-to several years, maybe even ten years back on this site.

I was going to do it, but my lactrical skills are limited and from what I read then, you really should have a “balancer” to keep the cells uniformly charged.

I bought a Ballistic eight cell for my modified bike. Unbeknownst to me, when I installed the rear fender, I knocked the sense wire off and within twenty minutes of warm up, my first ride lasted about three miles and I had smoke coming up from the battery. With no sense info the regulator was cooking it.

The second one is still great, six(?) years later.

I was able to tear down my bad one just to see how they are built. It’s a simple, 8 cells set up in two groups of four A123 batteries, slightly larger than Dcells. Four cells were still good, one was lower voltage and one was shot.

What is not easily seen is a small port at the top which was set up to access readings and balance the charge to each cell. With a multi meter, you can check each cell’s status. My limited understanding is that like vehicles with two batteries, if one battery is weaker, it will always be dragging the other down to its level. The manufacturer wants you to buy an expensive charger and plug it into the port so all cells are brought up to an equal charge roughly once a week.

They are common enough now that there would likely be these balancers available now to build your own. Mine had very small wires.

I used the eight cell which was not enough for the 1200—-according to the websites, they wanted at least a 12 cell. However, once I got mine to charge itself properly, it had more power than I ever needed. I have my older bikes set up for the regulator to bypass all the junctions and switches and get actual battery voltage. In my case, a regulator off a Magna was not charging the batteries enough and it was dying sometimes while riding. The regulator is set up to charge for a lead acid battery which is 12.6 volts. A123 cells are 3.2v (I think) so four times 3.3v is 13.2. They are not supposed to go above 14.6v. To get around this, I simply hooked the sense wire back up to the regular wiring harness, a 77 heavily molested harness. (I think I was losing a full volt through the various connectors and ignition switch back to the regulator) Ever since doing that, it has been golden. In cold weather they barely move the crank at first. Recommended procedure is to turn ignition on so lights and coils are activated a few seconds, then wait for a minute. The battery “wakes up “ during that time and cranks it over better.

Another unique thing about them as they lose almost zero charge while sitting as long as you have no residual drain. I disconnected the negative and it would sometimes read 14v after sitting for two months. However, hook the negative cable up, draw even a little power and the voltage goes way down. (Like 8-10 volts) Wait a minute or two and it returns to 13+- v.

With all that, I hope I have thoroughly confused you. It’s good for the retired man’s brain to be challenged. I think I’ll go read some tire and oil posts now.

[Gowing]

Lithium batteries. More money, requires special charger, should be woken up with headlights on for 30 seconds before starting, shouldn’t charge below 32 degrees! Don’t know about trickle. But they are half the size and 4-5 times. lighter. And can be mounted upside down. Don’t know if info is accurate. Learned from Fortnine video. I would love a shorai, not smart enough to make my own.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ywopGAXP-I

[Gowing]

Lithium batteries. More money, requires special charger, should be woken up with headlights on for 30 seconds before starting, shouldn’t charge below 32 degrees! Don’t know about trickle. But they are half the size and 4-5 times lighter. And can be mounted upside down. Don’t know if info is accurate. Learned from Fortnine video. I would love a shorai, not smart enough to make my own.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ywopGAXP-I

[Mike-C]

Gents, where do I get the controller / charger? I see some good looking battery deals on Aliexpress, see https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001 ... web201603_
Any other advice will be greatly appreciated.
Mike Coleman
'84 Wing-Lite (ex-Aspencade)
'84 (un-Terstate)
'84 Standard (as yet un-named)
'96 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 (The Vulcanator)

[Sugs]

I've had a Bikemaster lithium battery in my CB-1 for years now. It has a built in electronic board to keep the cells balanced and prevent overcharging/overdischarging. Not sure about Shorai batteries. If I was to build my own I would probably use one of the RC chargers I have to balance charge it from time to time since I have them.

[ritalz]

ALIexpress has good prices on their products but they are very slow arriving and tracking is terrible. Pretty sure they are based in China.

[Mike-C]

Al, you are right, but in the middle of winter we have the time.
Mike Coleman
'84 Wing-Lite (ex-Aspencade)
'84 (un-Terstate)
'84 Standard (as yet un-named)
'96 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 (The Vulcanator)

[Shadowjack]

They go round and round about lithium vs. "regular" batteries on the Africa Twin forums. Lotta opinions, but it seems to work out that unless your bike came with lithium, it's not going to be worth it. Space issues (in those bikes), charging tolerance, cost, all weigh heavy.

[Mike-C]

Gents,
I see lots of different opinions here and as my biggest problems is the boiling of the battery due to overcharging, the web pointed me to Ricks Electronics and their line of Mosfet regulators. There is a lot of positive traffic about them and I think I will simplify things by buying a new AGM battery and a Ricks regulator see . . . https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/Ho ... or-10_105H
But, to avoid extra costs, I will wait (hopefully) until the US / Canadian border re-opens and have it all shipped to my PO Box in Massena, NY.
Mike Coleman
'84 Wing-Lite (ex-Aspencade)
'84 (un-Terstate)
'84 Standard (as yet un-named)
'96 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 (The Vulcanator)

[ericheath]

I have parts from a year ago sitting in PO Box in North Dakota. I think I’m going to go the next time my son is near the border and have him pick up all my mail, meet me on the border line between customs buildings and slide them from his pickup box to mine. If they tell me I have to quarantine, I will turn around and go to Fargo and spend a few days with the grandkids and then bring them back without paying duty on the goods and then quarantine. With my luck, they’ll enact mandatory testing before returning as they do for flights so I won’t be able to visit.

I called CBP and the only answer I got was, “They COULD make you self-isolate/quarantine for 14 days.” I pressed them for will they? and they wouldn’t answer. I have been having things shipped here for the additional shipping duty costs since July, but how is it any safer for UPS, FedEx or whomever to bring it across? I have received parts from RockAuto in three days. The CBP told me the virus can live up to two days on objects. I have read it can live up to five days. If there is a danger, I can leave them in my garage untouched for two days.

Sorry, off the battery topic. Venting about border frustrations.

[Mike-C]

Eric,
I agree with you 1200%. For those of us who live on what amounts to both sides of the border this really is a pain in the bum. What really gets me is the cost of shipping, bordering on outrageous. I have taken to buying what I can from Chinese suppliers E-Bay and AliExpress simply because they ship to Canada for free, but that adds weeks, if not months, to the delivery time. I must admit the USPS has been magic over the past 9 months, they have told me that they will keep everything that I have ordered until I can get there to pick it all up. I know I am not the only one, the USPS in Massena has an annex at the local mall with what I guess-imate to be at least 300 PO boxes all of which are rented to Canadians. With the mall open 8 until 10 every day it makes for painless access, assuming that the border is open.
Mike Coleman
'84 Wing-Lite (ex-Aspencade)
'84 (un-Terstate)
'84 Standard (as yet un-named)
'96 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 (The Vulcanator)

[ericheath]

The USPS told me the same, but I’ve had some checks sent that were 90 days, so they get sent back. Most businesses are pretty good. The injector supplier said don’t worry about the cores until I can get the new ones. He said he would honor the reimbursement whenever. Hope he doesn’t go out of business as many are.