Persnickety Headlight

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Track T 2411
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Re: Persnickety Headlight

#16

Post by Track T 2411 »

The front turn signals are also running lights; the rear are not. The front should be lit dimly, like the taillight, with the key on, and flash brightly with the signal activated. The rear should only flash, not stay lit (it is illegal in the US to have amber colored tail/ running lights in the rear of a vehicle).
If you don't like the buzzer, you can simply disconnect it without harming the circuit...
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Dr. Frankenstein
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Re: Persnickety Headlight

#17

Post by Dr. Frankenstein »

Okay, cool - at least I know my signals are functioning properly..
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77Gowing
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Re: Persnickety Headlight

#18

Post by 77Gowing »

The ground connection in your headlight bucket "floats" or is discontinuous when your bucket hangs when unattached to the headlight ears which are attached to the frame. In one of your pics I note your bucket is attached via bolts to the headlight ears. BUT! The connection looks very rusty and is likely your problem with the head light not lighting. Your ground is not grounding to the frame. So, what to do? Get a single alligator test lead of any color you like, and attach an end to a clean spot of the ground connection in the bucket, then attach the other end alligator clip to a known good ground like Batt negative. Then test your headlight. If it works, you just proved your ground connection between the headlight and the mounting ears need to be cleaned.
This is a common phenomena with trailer lights as the ground runs through the vehicle frame, then through the hitch ball and thus through the trailer frame. If you have a rusty ball or reciever, the path for ground is lost and often the ground circuit gets completed via other light filiments (current takes the path of least resistance). If your ground connection between bucket & frame is not good or infinite resistance, then another path is found of higher resistance than normal but less than infinite. That is why your lights act all funky.
Trust me, I know what Im talking about from experience and I have thoroughly tested this. I can create the correct and the incorrect phenomenon...at will, with very repeatale & predictable results.
Clean your bucket mounting bolts, mounting ears and the outside of your bucket where it makes contact with the ears. Chase the bucket mounting holes with a new tap to rid the threads of rust too if you like.
Your ground, at bucket is an open circuit!
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Re: Persnickety Headlight

#19

Post by Dr. Frankenstein »

"Your ground, at bucket is an open circuit!" Thanks 77Gowing, I didn't know that...makes sense, though, since that's where the ground is attached.
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Re: Persnickety Headlight

#20

Post by Fred Camper »

Lots and lots of bullet connections in the headlight circuit. This is why some put a relay on the light, as it is much brighter without 1) going to the right handlebar for the starting circuit 2) back to the nest, 3) up to the left handlebar for the high/low beam switch, 4) back to the nest, and 5)from the nest to the headlight. So lots of connections to check.
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77Gowing
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Re: Persnickety Headlight

#21

Post by 77Gowing »

Fred Camper wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:48 pm Lots and lots of bullet connections in the headlight circuit. This is why some put a relay on the light, as it is much brighter without 1) going to the right handlebar for the starting circuit 2) back to the nest, 3) up to the left handlebar for the high/low beam switch, 4) back to the nest, and 5)from the nest to the headlight. So lots of connections to check.
So, Fred, is there a chance you could source a circuit diagram to supplant the circuit that runs all over the place? You bet this is an embarrassing question from a retired electrical engineer & lab technician. But mainly, cause I'm too lazy to chase down all the logic of the lighting ratz nest. Gig me go ahead, I can take it.
I presume we keep the hi/lo beam switch, use it to fire a relay placed under the left side false cover that will activate the relay coil upon ignition on which closes a set of contacts that directly bring power (+12v) to the respective headlight terminals. Not sure what other changes would be made that involve the starting circuit & low voltage system. I currently still have a functioning LV regulator and all the circuitry. I have bypassed it once simply, but preferred to leave it stock. Am running a new modern combination Rect/reg to good effect.
Any comment at all good or bad Mr. Camper would be appreciated.

Best regards, all.
Kenny
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77Gowing
1977 GL1000 "O'le Blue." (sold :crying)
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Re: Persnickety Headlight

#22

Post by Shadowjack »

I changed bar switches on my '75 to ones without a low-beam connection (from an NT700V, which uses a headlight relay), and added a relay as 77Gowing mentioned, except it only pulls when high is selected. Low is through the normally-open contact. I also added a relay that breaks the headlight feed when the start button is pressed, since the wires are smaller and I didn't want to run the feed power through the starter switch. There was room for these under the left cover once I got rid of the RLU and resistors.
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Re: Persnickety Headlight

#23

Post by redglbx »

The front turn signals on your 75 should indeed be on with the key in the”on” position, as previously stated they are 3 wire with running lights. The rears are 2 wire and should be dark unless activated.

My experience with my 76 has been that the RH start button contacts is the weak link, particularly if you run an aftermarket H4 headlight the contacts can’t carry the load. If you take the switch apart and clean the contacts it may work for a while but I’ve found replacement to be the only real fix. On my 76 I added 2 relays to carry battery voltage to the headlight and taking that load off the start button, the hi/low switch is used to trigger the relays.

Anyway the first thing I’d do is to bypass the reserve lighting unit to make sure it is not “the” problem and if you have no joy there then you need to check the ignition switch to see if you have power to the headlight coming out. But I’d bet on the rh switch being the problem.
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Persnickety Headlight

#24

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Actually, the headlight bucket should be connected to a green (ground) wire from the main harness. The engineers who designed these bikes knew that it is not good practice to rely on a chassis ground and a very bad idea indeed to use anything ahead of the steering head as a connection for the return current path (ground) connection because that would result in premature bearing failure because current passing through the bearings would arc any time the steering was turned, causing tiny pits in the bearings & races.
But since the headlight should also be connected to a green wire from the harness the grounding of the bucket should have no effect on it anyway.

1) A loose of corroded connection can cause a problem like this so check them first.

2) A "dogbone" main fuse that has cracked or is badly corroded can cause this sort of problem. If you haven't already done so replace the original dogbone main fuse (under a cover on the side of the solenoid) with a modern blade fuse in a weatherproof inline fuse holder.

3) The RLU functions by applying 1/2 voltage to the brake light filament if the tail light filament fails and by applying 1/2 voltage to the high beam filament if the low beam filament fails. In the case of the tail light you probably wouldn't be able to tell the RLU is working unless the indicator on the instrument panel lights (and you can't rely on a 4 decade old bulb) without removing the lens and looking at the bulb to see if the same filament is on with and without the brake. In the case of the headlight, you might be able to tell by where the "low" beam hits something in front of the bike.
It seems that RLU failures were as common as bulb filament failures (so much so that Clymer included instructions for bypassing it in the manual I bought in '93). Even if you are very lucky and your RLU is working today they cannot be trusted so you should bypass it as preventative maintenance.

4) If none of that fixes the headlight the next suspect is the Start button. The Start button has 2 sets of contacts, one to send power to the solenoid so that the starter motor will run and the other to interrupt power to the headlight while the starter is running so that all available power is available to the starter. It is pretty common for the headlight contacts in the Start button to become dirty or corroded over time and cause just the sort of problem you are having.
If you don't already have real electrical contact cleaner get some (NO, WD-40 is NOT an acceptable substitute - after its solvent evaporates it leaves a sticky residue that will attract dirt and you will soon be back where you started). With the key Off use the straw that comes with the contact cleaner to spray a generous amount of it into the hole in the bottom of the switch housing below the button and work the button vigorously a bunch of times (sort of squish the button around to move the contacts around in the cleaner) and see if the headlight started working. If not, try again; If it still doesn't work after several applications you may need to disassemble the switch and clean the contacts manually (more contact cleaner and a toothbrush - NEVER use sandpaper on electrical contacts).

If you do all of that and the headlight still doesn't work let us know and we'll tell you what to look at next.
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Dr. Frankenstein
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Re: Persnickety Headlight

#25

Post by Dr. Frankenstein »

It's been a while but just wanted to reply to this post because I took Sidecar Bob's advice on spraying electrical cleaner into that little hole under the start switch, wiggled it around a little and Voila! The headlight works, Hi and Low! So thank you very much for the tip, it was great! Now all the lights, brake light and horn work, so I have high hopes that it will crank over when the time comes - the heads and carb have been done, and I'm in the process of hooking up the throttle cables to the carb, but still have a ways to go before seeing what all this work, time and expense will yield, if anything; but at least I'm on the home stretch.
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Persnickety Headlight

#26

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Good to hear.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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