GL1000 misfires while idling

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rjdoles
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GL1000 misfires while idling

#1

Post by rjdoles »

In the process of restoring a 77 GL1000. This was a barn find with 45k miles that sat for 15 years.

After I got it running I adjusted the valves and then checked the compression and it is very close to 145 psi in all four cylinders. That is a little lower than the manual states. That could be engine wear or it may be my gauge. I would think that the pressure being the same is probably more important to tuning than the actual value. It doesn't smoke or use any oil.

I have rebuilt the carbs and the float levels are at 21mm at all four corners of the floats. All four idle adjustments do effect the idle and are 2 1/2 turns out. It has a lumpy idle which I believe is a characteristic of this generation bike.

It originally didn't have spark and I replaced an unknown electronic ignition with a Dynatek kit and ballast. I just checked the static timing again this morning and both pickup's trigger at 5 btdc. The bike runs great with no misfires except at idle. The plugs all look the same and after a 50 mile ride the electrodes are a nice brown.

There are times when it idles with very few misfires and then at others I get a persistent misfire. I set the idle with the bike's tach and it is right at 1000 rpm.

Do I still have an ignition problem? I would think that I would have a miss at higher rpm if it was an ignition problem. Is it possible that the factory 5 deg BTDC causes detonation and a misfire for one of the cylinders?

This is my first Goldwing and I have owned it for a grand total of two months so everyone on here has more experience with these than me. It has got me puzzled.

Anyone experience this and have suggestions or a remedy for this.
Started with an Allstate stooter made by Cushman and then a series of Honda motorcycles. 305 SuperHawk, CB750, VT600DC, VT750CD and then 4 years ago I left motorcycles for scooters with an Elite 125, Reflex 250 and Silverwing 600. Most recent is a barn find 77 GL1000 that I plan to resurect.
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Re: GL1000 misfires while idling

#2

Post by gltriker »

Set the pilot fuel screws 3 turns out from their seat.
Have the carburetors had a dynamic idle speed synchronization session?
Are the original GL1000 ignition coils still installed?
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
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RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
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Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Re: GL1000 misfires while idling

#3

Post by Whiskerfish »

Yea even on the early ones doing the idle drop is a good idea. First it verifies that you do in fact have all 4 hitting at idle and then it also ensures there is no lean out. I do the idle drop by the book and then add some. Maybe a half or sometimes a full turn. If that does not do anything to resolve it hook up a trickle charge while working on it just to eliminate a low voltage condition and eliminate that as a source.
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Re: GL1000 misfires while idling

#4

Post by pidjones »

I'd also check idle voltage to the coils and Duna unit. They don't like low. Check with a good digital meter.
"Love 'em all.... let God sort 'em out!"
Ex 2006 GL1800 - the Black Pearl SOLD! to make room for:
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Re: GL1000 misfires while idling

#5

Post by rjdoles »

gltriker wrote:Set the pilot fuel screws 3 turns out from their seat.
Have the carburetors had a dynamic idle speed synchronization session?
Are the original GL1000 ignition coils still installed?
I will try backing the screws out another half turn. Doesn't backing the screws out lean the idle out?

I used a homemade differential manometer (pic) filled with ATF to balance the carbs. I start with the two carbs on the right (1, 3) and I can get them within an inch of level and then I balance the two on the left (2, 4) within an inch of level and then I connect to 3 and 4 for side to side balance and get them within an inch of level.

I bought one of the digital tachometers that you wrap about 5 turns of the signal wire around one of the spark plug wires. It has a 10 rpm resolution and I have to keep adjusting the idle to keep it somewhere between 950 and 1000 during my synch adjustments. That 950 digital is about 1100 indicated on the bike tach.
manometer.jpg
manometer.jpg (92.83 KiB) Viewed 451 times
Started with an Allstate stooter made by Cushman and then a series of Honda motorcycles. 305 SuperHawk, CB750, VT600DC, VT750CD and then 4 years ago I left motorcycles for scooters with an Elite 125, Reflex 250 and Silverwing 600. Most recent is a barn find 77 GL1000 that I plan to resurect.
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Re: GL1000 misfires while idling

#6

Post by gltriker »

rjdoles wrote:
gltriker wrote:Set the pilot fuel screws 3 turns out from their seat.
Have the carburetors had a dynamic idle speed synchronization session?
Are the original GL1000 ignition coils still installed?
I will try backing the screws out another half turn. Doesn't backing the screws out lean the idle out?
No. Envision the pilot fuel adjuster screw as a water spigot.
Turning the screw "In" reduces
liquid volume delivery . (leaner)
Turning the screw " Out" increases liquid volume delivery . (richer) ;)
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Re: GL1000 misfires while idling

#7

Post by rjdoles »

gltriker wrote:Set the pilot fuel screws 3 turns out from their seat.
Are the original GL1000 ignition coils still installed?
The original coils are still installed. I checked their resistance readings when I installed the DynaTek and they were factory spec. The DynaTek replaced a no name electronic ignition that had a potted box in the electrical compartment.

A new ballast resistor came with the DynaTek kit. It replaced the original ballast resistor which also had another resistor bugged onto the side of it which may have been part of the previous electronic ignition kit.

Are the spark plug caps replaceable or is it permanently bonded to the plug wire?
Are the plug wires copper or carbon conductors?
What are others using to replace the coils?
Started with an Allstate stooter made by Cushman and then a series of Honda motorcycles. 305 SuperHawk, CB750, VT600DC, VT750CD and then 4 years ago I left motorcycles for scooters with an Elite 125, Reflex 250 and Silverwing 600. Most recent is a barn find 77 GL1000 that I plan to resurect.
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Re: GL1000 misfires while idling

#8

Post by Track T 2411 »

The caps are replaceable; they just screw off and on. The original wires are copper. Trimming back about a half-inch of the plug wire to expose 'fresh' wire and make better contact is a good common fix.
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Re: GL1000 misfires while idling

#9

Post by gltriker »

rjdoles wrote:
gltriker wrote:Set the pilot fuel screws 3 turns out from their seat.
Are the original GL1000 ignition coils still installed?
The original coils are still installed.
Are the plug wires copper or carbon conductors?
A continous loop of multiple strands, secondary Stainless steel wire from one end to the other end of the spark plug wires .
Not individually replaceable.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Re: GL1000 misfires while idling

#10

Post by socrace »

Might help to throw a timing light on it and look for unstable timing, in terms of spark scatter caused by weak advance springs, etc. Could also trigger off different plugs to narrow down which cylinder might be dropping out. But more likely you're probably looking at mixture variations as the cause, and yet another carb rack teardown. Although, it could clean itself out after a few hrs of runtime.
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Re: GL1000 misfires while idling

#11

Post by robin1731 »

I forget the source, so I can't give credit to the right person, but this will clear up some "misconceptions".

Air/fuel/mixture screws;

If the screw is located on the carb body between the air cleaner and the slide; turn it i to richen, out to lean.

If the screw is located on the carb body between the slide and the engine; turn it in to lean, out to richen.

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Re: GL1000 misfires while idling

#12

Post by robin1731 »

That info may have come from Mike Nixon. I just do not remember.

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1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
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Re: GL1000 misfires while idling

#13

Post by rjdoles »

Thanks for all the info guys.

I am going to back the idle screws out to 3 turns this morning and the check the resistance of the plug wires end to end to compare the readings of the two sets to see if there may be a problem there.

I have had the carbs off several times and I have had the plugs out at least a dozen times for compression checks, ignition timing checks. I have also had the wires off for carb rebuilds plus just checking the look of the plugs since I started this project. Maybe one of the plug wires was damaged or a connection worked loose with all that plugging and unplugging. I know that resistance wise the coil primaries and the secondary and wires checked out good when I started this project.

The funny thing is that this bike rev's pretty freely and is a hoot to ride. It doesn't miss a beat other than at idle. Actually I should probably sell it before I hurt myself.
Started with an Allstate stooter made by Cushman and then a series of Honda motorcycles. 305 SuperHawk, CB750, VT600DC, VT750CD and then 4 years ago I left motorcycles for scooters with an Elite 125, Reflex 250 and Silverwing 600. Most recent is a barn find 77 GL1000 that I plan to resurect.
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Re: GL1000 misfires while idling

#14

Post by pidjones »

rjdoles wrote:Thanks for all the info guys.

I am going to back the idle screws out to 3 turns this morning and the check the resistance of the plug wires end to end to compare the readings of the two sets to see if there may be a problem there.

I have had the carbs off several times and I have had the plugs out at least a dozen times for compression checks, ignition timing checks. I have also had the wires off for carb rebuilds plus just checking the look of the plugs since I started this project. Maybe one of the plug wires was damaged or a connection worked loose with all that plugging and unplugging. I know that resistance wise the coil primaries and the secondary and wires checked out good when I started this project.

The funny thing is that this bike rev's pretty freely and is a hoot to ride. It doesn't miss a beat other than at idle. Actually I should probably sell it before I hurt myself.
Off the top of my head, you should read 22k Ohm cap=to-cap, 12k Ohm with the caps off. But, that's from a fuzzy memory.
"Love 'em all.... let God sort 'em out!"
Ex 2006 GL1800 - the Black Pearl SOLD! to make room for:
2021 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited Dark Chalk Metallic
1975 Red GL1000 project - ex Pistol Pete project
1972 Triumph T150V Trident rescue - finished and FOR SALE!
1976 Yamaha RD400c
1978 GL1000 with '75 engine - the Hunley
Ex 1978 GL1000
Ex 1979 GL1000
Ex '79 CB750F rat bike
Ex '86 SEi
Ex '77 GL1000
Ex '76 RD400
Ex '72 Penton 125 set up for flat track
Ex '73 RD250
Ex '68 TR6C - chopped
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Re: GL1000 misfires while idling

#15

Post by gltriker »

Update please.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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