Dead battery, cause?

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pjlogue
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Dead battery, cause?

#1

Post by pjlogue »

I went to go for a ride today after not riding the bike for 3 weeks. Went to start it and it was dead as a door nail. Battery is 2 years old lead acid and have always kept in charged during the winters. I put a charger on (at battery terminals) it and then checked the Ground cable to see if when the ignition switch was off there was leakage current. It showed ~0.2 A. draw when ignition switch is off.

I put in a Rick's solid state rectifier/regulator. I'm wondering if a diode went on the rectifier. All wiring and ignition switch is new as of 2 years ago when I started restoring the bike. This is a GL1000 LTD.

Anyone with an idea, your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
-P.
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Re: Dead battery, cause?

#2

Post by CYBORG »

have the battery load tested. good to check both ens of the cables, for tightness and corrosion
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Re: Dead battery, cause?

#3

Post by pjlogue »

I'll try that. Thank you.

-P.
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Re: Dead battery, cause?

#4

Post by pidjones »

It is helpful to have a voltmeter (even temporary) on the bike. They can be purchased on ebay for less than $10 US with digital display of assorted colors. Here is one on my '79 daily driver (replacing the Honda analog, but can be taped/bungeed as needed):
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Re: Dead battery, cause?

#5

Post by pjlogue »

A voltmeter is a good idea. Another thought I had was my charging system went and on the last ride ~3 weeks ago it was shut down in the garage with the battery very low. I want to check the voltage to the battery as the engine is running and I increase RPM as well as the current to the battery while running.

Thanks,
-P.
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Re: Dead battery, cause?

#6

Post by pidjones »

Voltage is better to monitor (and easier). Should be >13.5 over ~2500 RPM and <15.
"Love 'em all.... let God sort 'em out!"
Ex 2006 GL1800 - the Black Pearl SOLD! to make room for:
2021 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited Dark Chalk Metallic
1975 Red GL1000 project - ex Pistol Pete project
1972 Triumph T150V Trident rescue - finished and FOR SALE!
1976 Yamaha RD400c
1978 GL1000 with '75 engine - the Hunley
Ex 1978 GL1000
Ex 1979 GL1000
Ex '79 CB750F rat bike
Ex '86 SEi
Ex '77 GL1000
Ex '76 RD400
Ex '72 Penton 125 set up for flat track
Ex '73 RD250
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Re: Dead battery, cause?

#7

Post by Whiskerfish »

pjlogue wrote:SNIP. It showed ~0.2 A. draw when ignition switch is off.
SNIP

Thanks in advance,
-P.
That is a bit of a concern. Has this been converted to a dyna? If so I would look to see where they are drawing power from.
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Re: Dead battery, cause?

#8

Post by tlbranth »

0.2 amp draw seems pretty high to me. That could flatten a battery after 3 weeks I would think. I'd look for the draw.
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Re: Dead battery, cause?

#9

Post by pjlogue »

Whiskerfish wrote:
pjlogue wrote:SNIP. It showed ~0.2 A. draw when ignition switch is off.
SNIP

Thanks in advance,
-P.
That is a bit of a concern. Has this been converted to a dyna? If so I would look to see where they are drawing power from.
Yes, it has a dyna ignition. That should be out of the circuit when the ignition is off. My thought is the regulator/rectifier which is connected directly (albeit through a fuse) to the battery.

I'm charging the battery now and will, when I get time, work my way back unplugging upstream from the battery and see where the current draw stops when the bike isn't running and ignition switch is off.

-P.
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Re: Dead battery, cause?

#10

Post by pjlogue »

tlbranth wrote:0.2 amp draw seems pretty high to me. That could flatten a battery after 3 weeks I would think. I'd look for the draw.
Yea, the battery was real low. ~4.5V. I had to jump it with another to get the charger to kick in. Once it got to ~9V the charger would stay charging. I had thought I put in a new battery when I started rebuilding the bike but now I'm not so sure. The grey matter gets fuzzy these days with stuff I did a couple of years ago. LOL.

-P.
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Re: Dead battery, cause?

#11

Post by pidjones »

Only the output of the Rectifier/regulator should be direct-connect (red/white NOT through fuse) to the battery. The (black) sense line should be through the ignition switch.
"Love 'em all.... let God sort 'em out!"
Ex 2006 GL1800 - the Black Pearl SOLD! to make room for:
2021 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited Dark Chalk Metallic
1975 Red GL1000 project - ex Pistol Pete project
1972 Triumph T150V Trident rescue - finished and FOR SALE!
1976 Yamaha RD400c
1978 GL1000 with '75 engine - the Hunley
Ex 1978 GL1000
Ex 1979 GL1000
Ex '79 CB750F rat bike
Ex '86 SEi
Ex '77 GL1000
Ex '76 RD400
Ex '72 Penton 125 set up for flat track
Ex '73 RD250
Ex '68 TR6C - chopped
pjlogue
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Re: Dead battery, cause?

#12

Post by pjlogue »

pidjones wrote:Only the output of the Rectifier/regulator should be direct-connect (red/white NOT through fuse) to the battery. The (black) sense line should be through the ignition switch.
Yes, you are correct, the + output from the rectifier isn't fused. My thought is that with the ignition off the only electrical device connected to the battery is the rectifier. + and through ground. If a diode failed this could cause my leakage current when everything is shut off. If, when I unplug the rectifier there is still leakage current my thoughts would be a bad ignition switch.

-P.
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Re: Dead battery, cause?

#13

Post by Sidecar Bob »

pjlogue wrote:I had thought I put in a new battery when I started rebuilding the bike but now I'm not so sure. The grey matter gets fuzzy these days with stuff I did a couple of years ago.
That's why I keep a maintenance log. When I first put Mr.H I figured I'd only have it a few years and I'd remember everything to tell its new owner but 10 years later I found I was spending a lot of time figuring out what I had done. I wrote down whatever I could remember from before that but I have really good records for the last 13 years :roll:

0.2A is about 2.4W. Assuming you haven't added a charging outlet that is always live or something like that it is a serious problem.
Once the battery is charged get an incandescent light bulb (either in a holder or solder leads to it) and connect it in place of the main fuse. It should not light when the key is off. If it does start jiggling wiring while keeping an eye on the light. (This is easier than watching an ammeter and the bulb will limit the current to a safe level.) You can also unplug things to see if something kills the light but I suspect the problem is something shorting to ground, perhaps a wire that's insulation has worn through. When the light blinks you are close to the problem; keep working in that area until you find what is shorting.

If the light doesn't come on when you turn the key on put the fuse back, disconnect the battery's negative cable and connect the bulb between the battery negative and the cable. and repeat.

Oh, and before you do any of that, it occurs to me that your "leak" is pretty close to what a tail light bulb would draw so make sure you turned the key to Off instead of Park.....
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Re: Dead battery, cause?

#14

Post by pjlogue »

Sidecar Bob, good suggestion about keeping a log. Between getting older and as busy as I am I find little things I think I'll remember get lost in the shuffle. I charged the battery with a smart charger which puts out 0.8A. It took about 26 hrs to come up to full charge so I'm hoping the battery is good. I have an Advance Auto a block from me so I'll ask them to put it on a pile and test it.

The use of a small light bulb is also a good idea. I have a clamp on digital amp meter and it's good for house wires and larger currents but the small currents and wires it gives a varying reading depending on where the wire is located in the clamp loop.

After I get the battery tested, I want to disconnect the rectifier/regulator and see if the current leakage goes away.

Hard to do stuff after work during the week but all that changes this Friday! From that day forward every day will be Saturday. Hard to wrap my mind around retiring but sure looking forward to actually having time to do things for once.

-P.
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Re: Dead battery, cause?

#15

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Before I retired a bunch of guys who were told me they couldn't figure out how they ever found time to go to work every day. It took me about 3 months after I retired to figure out what they meant...
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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