Rectifier question

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MrRenner76
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Rectifier question

#1

Post by MrRenner76 »

So my 79 GL isn't charging, I've read what and how to test but am stuck at work all day so it'll have to wait. The question I have is when I unhooked the connector with the 3 yellow wires as the bike was running there was a noticeable change in the idle, is that normal or could it be an indication of something wrong with the stator? I guess getting the ol' multimeter out tonight will answer any questions I may have, but it's slow at work and I'm bored lol. I was just surprised that unplugging that connector had an effect on the idle is all.
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Track T 2411
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Re: Rectifier question

#2

Post by Track T 2411 »

First, Welcome from Wisconsin! I noticed that same 'symptom' when I was working on my 1100I. I've since put over 15k miles on it with no related electrical issues, so unless someone else chimes in to the contrary, I wouldn't worry about it (I did cut out the white connector and solder the three yellow wires...).
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gltriker
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Re: Rectifier question

#3

Post by gltriker »

I had also noticed how much the engine idle speed on my '75 increased when I disconnected the 3 yellow wires connector to see what the AC outputs were, after installing a new stator.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

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Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
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MrRenner76
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Re: Rectifier question

#4

Post by MrRenner76 »

Well, went home for lunch and decided that the bike was more important than food. Fired up the bike after charging the brand new battery overnight, and lo and behold it seems to be charging just fine sitting at high 12 to low 13 volts when idling all the way up to mid 14's at about 3000 rpm. Now when I switched to AC to check voltage at the connector with the 3 yellow wires is where it gets interesting, everything I've read online says normal output should be about 40-50 volts, well I was getting like 88 on two of them and 90 on one of them. I checked more than once and should've taken a picture, but that seems a tad high to me. I'm wondering now if I don't have something drawing power somewhere like a short, a bad ground or if I just need to take the bike for a ride on the highway and see what it does afterwards. As of right now I've never been the road with it, just been working the kinks out after it sat for 3 years without hitting the road. I should've checked it last night when the gauge wouldn't read over 11 volts even sitting at 3000 rpm.
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gltriker
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Re: Rectifier question

#5

Post by gltriker »

Does it need a new battery? Oops. Went back and read your first post...
Again.

How many RPMs was the engine running at when the disconnected three yellow wires AC volt readings were extremely high?
I saw readings across the tested legs near 90 Vac when my engine was reving up over 5,000 rpm.

According to a very trustworthy and reliable source of information, it was stated that those very high AC readings are normal , at much higher rpms than the testing would normally be performed at.

Mid 14 vdc at 3000 rpm is excellent!

Yes! By all means ride the bike now and worry less about battery charging system.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
MrRenner76
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Re: Rectifier question

#6

Post by MrRenner76 »

gltriker wrote:Does it need a new battery? Oops. Went back and read your first post...
Again.

How many RPMs was the engine running at when the disconnected three yellow wires AC volt readings were extremely high?
I saw readings across the tested legs near 90 Vac when my engine was reving up over 5,000 rpm.

According to a very trustworthy and reliable source of information, it was stated that those very high AC readings are normal , at much higher rpms than the testing would normally be performed at.

Mid 14 vdc at 3000 rpm is excellent!

Yes! By all means ride the bike now and worry less about battery charging system.
I really do need to get the old girl on the road, she deserves better than sitting for the past 3 years!

The high readings were at idle surprisingly, but I'll check what they are at about 3000 or so when I get home. This whole thing could be "user error" as starting it and letting it idle a LOT this past weekend could easily be my issue. I bet I fired that thing up 10+ times without going anywhere lol. Time to get on the highway and blow the cobwebs out of it!
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Rectifier question

#7

Post by Sidecar Bob »

If something was drawing extra power the voltage would decrease, not increase.

I cannot find anything in the GL1000 FSM about unplugging the alternator from the bike to measure the voltage but based on what I have seen & read elsewhere I would expect something in the 90V range (I saw a pic once of someone checking a bike's stator with 240V light bulbs and I doubt they would be very bright with 50V).

RE RPM increase when the stator is unplugged: As you probably already know, most bikes (including Classic 'Wings) have alternators consisting of a rotor (usually permanent magnets in the flywheel) and fixed generating coils (stator). Since the magnets always have the same field strength, the stator's output is always the same for a given RPM. The output voltage is regulated by shunting the excess to ground with a zener diode or equivalent circuitry in the regulator/rectifier.
That means that a fair bit of electrical power is being produced and used (either by the lighting, ignition &c or by the regulator shunting it) all the time. The alternator doesn't produce that power out of thin air but converts mechanical power into electrical power, which means that it probably takes somewhere in the area of 5-10 HP to turn it.
When you unplug the stator there is no electrical load on it so the mechanical load becomes very small. It would be more surprising if the engine RPM didn't increase.
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Re: Rectifier question

#8

Post by heraldhamster »

Sidecar Bob wrote:If something was drawing extra power the voltage would decrease, not increase.

I cannot find anything in the GL1000 FSM about unplugging the alternator from the bike to measure the voltage but based on what I have seen & read elsewhere I would expect something in the 90V range (I saw a pic once of someone checking a bike's stator with 240V light bulbs and I doubt they would be very bright with 50V).

RE RPM increase when the stator is unplugged: As you probably already know, most bikes (including Classic 'Wings) have alternators consisting of a rotor (usually permanent magnets in the flywheel) and fixed generating coils (stator). Since the magnets always have the same field strength, the stator's output is always the same for a given RPM. The output voltage is regulated by shunting the excess to ground with a zener diode or equivalent circuitry in the regulator/rectifier.
That means that a fair bit of electrical power is being produced and used (either by the lighting, ignition &c or by the regulator shunting it) all the time. The alternator doesn't produce that power out of thin air but converts mechanical power into electrical power, which means that it probably takes somewhere in the area of 5-10 HP to turn it.
When you unplug the stator there is no electrical load on it so the mechanical load becomes very small. It would be more surprising if the engine RPM didn't increase.
Bob said exactly what I was thinking and wanted to say. Only I didn't know the "5-10 HP" part of it.
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Rectifier question

#9

Post by Sidecar Bob »

I knew it was a substantial amount but I had to look up how much. Note that I said "probably because 5-10 HP is an estimate based on the info I found in several places online.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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gltriker
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Re: Rectifier question

#10

Post by gltriker »

So.....if somebody wants to drag race you and your GL, after verifying your battery is FULLY CHARGED, unplug the three AC
wires connector and pull all unnecessary circuits' fuses, first! dancr
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Rectifier question

#11

Post by Sidecar Bob »

That's why racing machines usually don't have alternators...
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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Re: Rectifier question

#12

Post by 1983lux »

My bike never really charged right until I upgraded to a modern regulator/rectifier. I'm no expert but I think i've heard that your bike's wiring has to be perfect for the old system to work right, and with a 40 year old harness this is somewhat unlikely.
I got one from a cbr 600, cut the plugs off it and wired my plug from the old gl1000 one on to it. Only cost me about $35 cdn. This may not be the cause of your issue but something to consider.

details here: http://wingovations.com/regulator-rectifier/4579471117
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Rectifier question

#13

Post by Sidecar Bob »

You could also use the regulator/rectifier from an '80 or newer GoldWing (or any other Honda with permanent magnet alternator). Or if you want a real improvement you could upgrade to a MOSFET reg/rec (apparently they don't regulate by loading the alternator).
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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