Bleading the BLINKING brakes!!

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Easter
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Bleading the BLINKING brakes!!

#1

Post by Easter »

Those of you who have been around know that I am not new to rebuilding brakes. Over the last five years I have probably rebuilt and bled a couple of dozen on different projects. Some are harder than others.

But I am stuck on second base with this '83. Using the original brake calipers after rebuilding, abandoning the linked (to rear master cylinder) system in favor of a double banjo at the MC with two stainless brake lines to the calipers. The first aftermarket MC just would not bleed (or at least continued to feel spongy) so I ordered a nice GL1800 MC (to match the one I was already using on the back). Unfortunately I still have the spongy feeling and the need to "pump up" the brakes. I have tried repeatedly to get any air out of the lines and as far as I can tell there isn't any. No leaks anywhere.

My orange bike has the same front brake arrangement except for a MC of different origin, and has always worked great.

Any thoughts?
Bikes at present:

83 XL 600r with a 2004 XR650L engine
And a slightly worse for the wear BMW GS adventure bike awaiting repair
83 GL in process :IDTS:
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Re: Bleading the BLINKING brakes!!

#2

Post by pidjones »

All I can offer is what you probably already know - you have to properly "prime" the MC before it is truely useful. Also, I have found the rear cup out of place on two MCs - one that I rebuilt myself, the other on a Chinabay special.
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Re: Bleading the BLINKING brakes!!

#3

Post by 5speed »

have you tried taping the brake handle to the bar and letting it sit over night?
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Re: Bleading the BLINKING brakes!!

#4

Post by Lucien Harpress »

No advice, just that I feel your pain. I've got a single-caliper front brake on my CB750 that's still spongy, and that's THE simplest setup to bleed. I genuinely hate hydraulics SO much.
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Re: Bleading the BLINKING brakes!!

#5

Post by 05c50 »

Have you tried vacuum bleeding, I've had good luck with it when I've had a system that wouldn't build pressure.

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Re: Bleading the BLINKING brakes!!

#6

Post by rcmatt007 »

sometimes you have to "up end" the MC so there is no "hidey spot" for the air bubble. Also, your MC may not have the capacity for two front brakes, in which case it will bottom out and pumping just is a short term fix. I used the OEM 1200 MC on a sidecar conversion with both front brakes and that is what happened.
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Re: Bleading the BLINKING brakes!!

#7

Post by scootsx2 »

There might also be a small air bubble in a caliper. Make sure that the bleeder valve for the calipers is at the topmost orientation. This may require temporarily changing the positions of the calipers while bleeding.
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Re: Bleading the BLINKING brakes!!

#8

Post by Easter »

Thanks all, have tried most of the suggestions including removing the master cylinder from the bars and tipping it up then tapping on it to make sure there is no bubble hiding in the banjo. It may very well be that the MC, even though from a GL1800 just doesn't push enough juice for both calipers. The Nisson with 5/8 piston size on my orange bike does just fine with the same calipers and I assumed the Nisson for an 1800 would be sized the same but I haven't been able to confirm that.

Have gotten side tracked with the carbs but will hopefully, soon be back on the brake issue.
Bikes at present:

83 XL 600r with a 2004 XR650L engine
And a slightly worse for the wear BMW GS adventure bike awaiting repair
83 GL in process :IDTS:
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Re: Bleading the BLINKING brakes!!

#9

Post by Don R »

What 5 speed said. I used rubber bands. Also had a 14mm on my 79 with stock calipers, it worked great. Good luck.
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Re: Bleading the BLINKING brakes!!

#10

Post by rcmatt007 »

Once again, if you went from a MC for one caliper and are trying to make it do two calipers it has to travel twice as far... therein lies your problem
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76 Ltd "cookies bike" ALMOST DONE
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Re: Bleading the BLINKING brakes!!

#11

Post by Explorer »

rcmatt007 is absolutely correct, if you want to operate 2 rotors, now you have to change the master cylinder bore from 14mm to 16mm. I would imagine the rear will be OK because you've reduced the demand on it.
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Re: Bleading the BLINKING brakes!!

#12

Post by Easter »

16mm MC on order. I guess I just forgot the 1800 front MC only operates one of the calipers while the rear MC operates the other. I am still a bit surprised it is only a 14 mm but at this point I have not been able to find the specs, so will assume it to be true.

And by the way, I have a GL1800 and the front brake is super, even if it only activates one disc.

Again thanks all.
Bikes at present:

83 XL 600r with a 2004 XR650L engine
And a slightly worse for the wear BMW GS adventure bike awaiting repair
83 GL in process :IDTS:
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Re: Bleading the BLINKING brakes!!

#13

Post by robin1731 »

Easter wrote:16mm MC on order. I guess I just forgot the 1800 front MC only operates one of the calipers while the rear MC operates the other. I am still a bit surprised it is only a 14 mm but at this point I have not been able to find the specs, so will assume it to be true.

And by the way, I have a GL1800 and the front brake is super, even if it only activates one disc.

Again thanks all.
Maybe it is different years but I thought the 1800 used a system that has 6 piston front calipers. Rear brake pedal activates one set of pistons on each front caliper. Front brake lever activates the other front pistons on both calipers. Maybe I'm thinking of something else.

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Re: Bleading the BLINKING brakes!!

#14

Post by scootsx2 »

robin1731 wrote: Maybe it is different years but I thought the 1800 used a system that has 6 piston front calipers. Rear brake pedal activates one set of pistons on each front caliper. Front brake lever activates the other front pistons on both calipers. Maybe I'm thinking of something else.

.
I recently rebuilt both front calipers on my 2001 GL1800. Each caliper has 3 pistons. Front brake lever actuates one (1) piston on the left front caliper and two (2) pistons on the right front caliper.
GL1800 front brakes.PNG
GL1800 front brakes.PNG (31.07 KiB) Viewed 133 times
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195x Solex 1700
196x Solex 2200

St. Louis, MO

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Re: Bleading the BLINKING brakes!!

#15

Post by Easter »

Thanks robin and scootsx2, definitely more involved than the '83 linked system. Anyone know the piston size of the 1800 MC?

And by the way (again) the rear MC from the 1800 works great on the '83 1100 un-linked. I have used it twice and several others over the years have also used it.
Bikes at present:

83 XL 600r with a 2004 XR650L engine
And a slightly worse for the wear BMW GS adventure bike awaiting repair
83 GL in process :IDTS:
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