Starter will not stop spinning

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gltriker
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Re: Starter will not stop spinning

#16

Post by gltriker »

K SMITH you have posed the question where might you locate a trustworthy starter relay. I haven't seen any suggestions yet. And, I haven't required a replacement starter relay for my GL 1000 trike.

So, to get a conversation going about procurement of this item I'll throw this into the proverbial ring.

RANDAKK CYCLE SHAKK

https://www.randakks.com/solenoid-switc ... asaki.html
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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CYBORG
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Re: Starter will not stop spinning

#17

Post by CYBORG »

I might have a bit better understanding of this circuit then the average guy, but if I were to have this problem I would verify the solenoid was good or bad by engaging the starter button, and if the starter continued to run when I let off the button, I would disconnect the starter button wires at the solenoid, and see if it continued to run. If so it has to be the solenoid. If not it is the button/switch. If it was wiring, pushing the button should activate the headlight, and turn off the starter.
diodes are easy to check. And I would also stay away from anything except OEM. Even if I had to go used. Solenoid's usually fail because the secondary high amperage contacts weld to the contact points. Which can be caused by engaging the starter for intervals that are to long, and creating to much heat. No point in over thinking it, in my opinion. Just test each part of the circuit on it's own. A half hour job, if you have to think about it a lot. IMO
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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gltriker
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Re: Starter will not stop spinning

#18

Post by gltriker »

CYBORG wrote:I might have a bit better understanding of this circuit then the average guy, but if I were to have this problem I would verify the solenoid was good or bad by engaging the starter button, and if the starter continued to run when I let off the button, I would disconnect the starter button wires at the solenoid, and see if it continued to run. If so it has to be the solenoid. If not it is the button/switch. If it was wiring, pushing the button should activate the headlight, and turn off the starter.
diodes are easy to check. And I would also stay away from anything except OEM. Even if I had to go used. Solenoid's usually fail because the secondary high amperage contacts weld to the contact points. Which can be caused by engaging the starter for intervals that are too long, and creating too much heat. No point in over thinking it, in my opinion. Just test each part of the circuit on it's own. A half hour job, if you have to think about it a lot. IMO
Excellent information, Doug > CYBORG. action1

How long is too long? :(

It's generally agreed, to reduce dynamic stress on a starter motor, a Best Practice is to crank the engine for 15 seconds, stop, then wait 3 minutes before cranking the engine again. Repeat. 15 seconds....3 minutes. tumb2

Some fellows install an electric fuel pump to greatly reduce the amount of engine cranking time required to refill the empty carburetor fuel bowls.

Done! ;)
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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CYBORG
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Re: Starter will not stop spinning

#19

Post by CYBORG »

15 sec. sounds about right. I have electric pumps, and a good tune. I rarely hear the starter on mine. Push the button, and its running in less then a second. However, as a precaution, I run the start button thru a relay. Which is really what the solenoid does as well. In simple terms, the solenoid is a combination of a low amperage relay, that triggers a high amperage switch, encased in one unit.
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
Damferg
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Re: Starter will not stop spinning

#20

Post by Damferg »

gltriker wrote:
KSmith wrote:Thank you for the reply. I tested the rely and the 2 small wire Y/R and G/R with a OHM meter and it read 4 OHM witch I think is in spec. This is the second rely I have installed. Is there another test? When I hook up the battery, tighten up the red post first. When I touch the ground on to the negative post of the battery the starter turns on and is turning the engine over. This happen even when the key off and the switch in the off position? Did I mention I also replaced the started button! :-( How about the DIODES could that affect this issue and how do you test? Thanks again, so sad I sent 3 years on a frame off restoration and I have had a few years of fun riding. Now this is stumping me. Take a look at the photo of the retro under my name.
YES! that test was for the low amperature magnetic coil windings in the starter relay. :oldies

Disconnect both cables from the battery first.

Now you will test the starter relay's internal, high amperature circuit contacts' resistance across the 2 threaded studs where the battery cables are attached onto the starter relay.

Doesn't make any difference which lead color test probe is placed on either of the 2 threaded studs.

There should be no measured continuity observed in this prescribed continuity test. Infinity.

Any measurable continuity test result confirms the high amperage circuit contacts in the starter relay, itself, are completing/closing the high amperature circuit between the positive battery post and the starter motor stud.

Most likely, the shifting contact disc has become welded to the internal contact ends of the 2 threaded studs you have just tested for continuity.

That highly suspected mechanical internal fault, inside the starter relay, is causing the starter motor to dynamically operate, even with the key off.


You said this is the second relay?
Try this starter relay internal continuity test on that unemployed starter relay, first. Should be easier to understand this testing logic with it on the bench......away from the bike.
Afterwards, disassemble it to examine the internal components.

note: The right side handlebar OFF/RUN/OFF switch controls power to the ignition coils. ONLY!

starting around the 1:00 minute mark in the linked below YouTube video, there is a basic breakdown ( and dynamic, internal components operation) of the starter relay internals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMW9DtvDTyE



Wow great advice, thanks!
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