Pulled heads off my 1100 and surprise

Discuss everything about Honda GoldWing. Feel free to ask any question related to GoldWing.

Moderators: CYBORG, Oldewing, robin1731, Forum Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
CYBORG
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 24537
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:52 pm
Location: Muskegon mich

Re: Pulled heads off my 1100 and surprise

#16

Post by CYBORG »

I have always used a drill. But there is a correct way to use one. If done wrong,...….. And I think that a light lapping will confirm a good valve job
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
User avatar
ancientdad
Cast Iron Member
Cast Iron Member
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:26 pm

Re: Pulled heads off my 1100 and surprise

#17

Post by ancientdad »

JamesPal wrote:
ancientdad wrote:
robin1731 wrote: I will say if anyone lapped the valves so much that they put grooves in them they should never have touched that engine/head. Can't imagine how long that would take lapping valves by hand.
Forever and a day, no doubt. I've lapped valves until my hands and arms were tired and barely made a "dent" in them
JamesPal wrote:I have seen people actually use a drill motor to lap valves.
and we know that's a no-no, don't we Jim? it's the lazy man's method, though I have seen people get away with it. those people were generally going to sell the bike anyway so what did they care...
My machinist told me if the grind job was done correctly lapping is not required. So far he is right.
:-D
'73 CL450K5 brat
'84 VF1100S naked
among past rides
'79 and '80 CBXs
'75 and '76 GL1000s
(2) '73 CB750K3, '78 CB750K8/F2
User avatar
robin1731
Membership Admin
Membership Admin
Posts: 21724
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 8:31 am
Location: Decatur, Indiana

Re: Pulled heads off my 1100 and surprise

#18

Post by robin1731 »

JamesPal wrote:snip...……….
My machinist told me if the grind job was done correctly lapping is not required. So far he is right.
That is correct if you cut the seats and grind the valves. But in the case where you can't grind the valves you do still want to lap them in to the newly cut seats.

.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
User avatar
77Gowing
True Blue Steel Biker
True Blue Steel Biker
Posts: 2724
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:31 pm
Location: San Angelo, Texas

Re: Pulled heads off my 1100 and surprise

#19

Post by 77Gowing »

The way I was taught in auto shop valve lapping after servicing the valves only takes a couple of minutes per valve/seat. No need for a drill.
I'm open to suggestions, did I learn it wrong?
"Less is More" Anonymous

77Gowing
1977 GL1000 "O'le Blue." (sold :crying)
2014 Yamaha 950 V Star (sold)
2017 Indian Scout Std w/ABS (sold)
2009 Honda VTX1300R "Me Brudder's" (sold)
1984 Honda Interstate "84' 2outa4." Gone
1982 Honda GL1100 "After thought." Gone
User avatar
CYBORG
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 24537
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:52 pm
Location: Muskegon mich

Re: Pulled heads off my 1100 and surprise

#20

Post by CYBORG »

you are correct. drill just decreases the time. And I've always had bad luck with the suction cups slipping, and having to be dead center on the valve
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
User avatar
robin1731
Membership Admin
Membership Admin
Posts: 21724
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 8:31 am
Location: Decatur, Indiana

Re: Pulled heads off my 1100 and surprise

#21

Post by robin1731 »

77Gowing wrote:The way I was taught in auto shop valve lapping after servicing the valves only takes a couple of minutes per valve/seat. No need for a drill.
I'm open to suggestions, did I learn it wrong?

Depends on the situation. As I said if you service both the valve and the seat no need to lap them at all. If working on a Honda and you service just the seat then you need to lap the valve to that fresh seat. How long depends on when you can get to the finish you need/want. You can also get different "grits" of lapping compound.

.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
JSBail
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 796
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:08 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: Pulled heads off my 1100 and surprise

#22

Post by JSBail »

Right now I'm waiting for the new gasket set to arrive so I can put it all back together. The cam belts I had on it only had maybe 10k miles on them and seemed to still be in good shape but I ordered a new set of belts anyhow.
Scott
User avatar
Sidecar Bob
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 7633
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Kawartha Lakes, Ontario

Re: Pulled heads off my 1100 and surprise

#23

Post by Sidecar Bob »

I'm glad I decided to lap my new engine's valves while the heads were off. Several of the valves that came in the engine only turned shiny part way around the mating surface and the only thing that could cause that is if the valve is slightly bent. Fortunately I have a "parts" GL1000 engine and I was able to use valves from it to replace the bad ones.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
JSBail
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 796
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:08 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: Pulled heads off my 1100 and surprise

#24

Post by JSBail »

Now that the heads are back on, new timing belts and valve lash set the compression #'s are between 140 to 135 across all 4 cyls. Not the improvement I was hoping BUT at least all 4 are more equal to each other than they were before. Now that that's done the next step is to pull the front engine cover off and hope I can repair it's leaky water pump.
Scott
User avatar
OCR
Chrome Member
Chrome Member
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:22 am
Location: Finger Lakes of CNY

Re: Pulled heads off my 1100 and surprise

#25

Post by OCR »

Rings will seal better with use and compression will come up.
79 CX500custom
76LTD
77Goldwing
2001 Polaris Scrambler 500 4X4

Secretary Caroline Lodge 681
JSBail
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 796
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:08 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: Pulled heads off my 1100 and surprise

#26

Post by JSBail »

Well I rebuilt the water pump following the instructions on this thread https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3230 I initially planned on replacing it with a new pump but while checking compression once the heads were on I toasted the starter and bought a new aftermarket starter which put a dent in my wallet so I decided to try rebuilding my water pump instead to save some money. The mechanical seal mentioned in the link is still available, I could've saved more by purchasing an aftermarket seal but opted for the genuine Honda seal instead along with new bearings. Everything went together just fine and once a reasonably warm day arrived I got the engine all back together and fired up. So far it sounds good and it does seem to have a snappier throttle response than it had before, that could be a placebo so I wont really know if any improvement was made until the weather warms up enough to take it for a ride but so far I'm pleased with how it has turned out.
Scott
User avatar
Sidecar Bob
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 7633
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Kawartha Lakes, Ontario

Re: Pulled heads off my 1100 and surprise

#27

Post by Sidecar Bob »

FWIW, the mechanical seal in the GL1000/1100 water pump is the one used in all CX/GL500/650 models. The CX community has known for almost 20 years that Yamaha part 11H-12438-10 is identical but costs about 1/3 less and that there are lots of other seals that fit & work just as well.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
User avatar
flyin900
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1489
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:50 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Pulled heads off my 1100 and surprise

#28

Post by flyin900 »

There is the fellow out of Germany who is a member on here and he sells the complete rebuild kit for the water pump. Ray is his name and an associate of “Old Fogey”!
I have always found that running the motor for awhile after you do a valve job takes a little while for the valves to settle in completely. A noticeable improvement once you get a few miles on the valve refresh.
Last edited by flyin900 on Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Current Bikes:

1966 CL77 - Honda 305cc - Dual purpose - "Gentleman's Scrambler" was a period moniker.
1967 CL175K0 - Low production number with #802 engine serial- winter 2019/2020 full restoration.
1972 CB350F - Baby Four with low mileage - Cosmetic refresh to the next level 2021/2022.
1978 CB550K - Very original bike with only 7499 Km. from new - light cleanup and refresh done.
1983 CB1100F - Canadian model - DOHC Supersport in pristine low kilometre condition from new.
1984 GL1200 - Standard model in showroom condition - two owner bike from new.
1984 CX650E - Restored summer 2017 - a rare Eurosport model - excellent one owner bike.
JSBail
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 796
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:08 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: Pulled heads off my 1100 and surprise

#29

Post by JSBail »

For those of you who may be contemplating rebuilding their existing water pump rather than buy a new pump there really isn't much to it, however the key is being able to get it apart without damaging the shaft or the phenolic vanes of the pump. With that said I wouldn't be ordering anything until you can successfully disassemble the pump first and then decide whether to rebuild it or buy a new one.
Scott
User avatar
Sidecar Bob
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 7633
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Kawartha Lakes, Ontario

Re: Pulled heads off my 1100 and surprise

#30

Post by Sidecar Bob »

When I was putting Mr.H's new engine back together last spring I got thinking about the 36 year old water pump and how much more work it is to replace one with the engine in the frame than it is when the engine is already apart on the bench. But new ones cost about $150 CAD these days (plus shipping!!), which I find really hard to pay when the seal for the CX costs less than 1/4 of that. So I dug out an old, known leaky one, pulled it apart (the shaft popped out with a few taps of the soft faced hammer) and confirmed that its seal exactly matched an old CX seal. Then I ordered two 6000-2RS bearings and a mechanical seal for less than $50 total, shipped.

Old & new parts
Image

Reassembled pump. There isn't much more to rebuilding a GoldWing water pump than replacing the mechanical seal in a CX other than driving in the bearings.
Image

I only drove it a few hundred KM with the new engine but so far so good.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “GoldWing Tech Discussions”