Where to draw power

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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Where to draw power

#16

Post by Sidecar Bob »

1) If the ballast resistor is there to protect the points, why does the 1100 have a ballast resistor.
2) The APU provides approx. 1/2 voltage to the headlight's high beam if the low beam fails and to the brake light if the tail light fails. Assuming that the ATU itself doesn't fail first... That was common enough that Clymer describes how to bypass it in the Troubleshooting chapter.

BTW: I would use a fuse & relay from the battery and trigger it from any black wire (switched power).
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Shadowjack
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Re: Where to draw power

#17

Post by Shadowjack »

I don't know about 1100s, I've only had 1000s and 1200s. I know that other Hondas of the time (CB650, CX650) had the same electronic ignition amplifier modules as the 1100 and they don't have ballasts.
Until the charging systems became robust enough to keep a high-power ignition fed, bikes had crap ignitions. The Goldwing was at the forefront of this change. The 1000 coilset was considered a "hop-up" part to put on smaller bikes, back in the day, because they were wound to give more spark. They accomplished this by drawing more current, thus endangering the life of the points, thus requiring the automotive-style ballast. I don't suppose anyone who actually used them for performance was concerned with point life.
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Where to draw power

#18

Post by Sidecar Bob »

My CX650E based winter machine has the same spark units, as does the GL500 and other CX/GL650 models, also without ballast resistors. But their starter motors are a lot smaller so maybe they don't pull the voltage as low during starting?
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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Rat
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Re: Where to draw power

#19

Post by Rat »

Not all 1100s have ballasts, 80-81 did, 82-83 didn't

Gord(just to add to the confusion)Jones anim-cheers1
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Re: Where to draw power

#20

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Um.... My '83 did (until I installed 1500 coils).

According to the schematics (see link in my signature) the '80 and '81 did not have resistors but '82 and '83 did.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
Shadowjack
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Re: Where to draw power

#21

Post by Shadowjack »

I see that the 1100s do indeed have a resistor in the ignition circuit, but if you compare the 1000 to the 1100, the resistor is upstream of the points of the 1000 and upstream of the coils on the 1100, nowhere near the spark units. This implies to me that the 1000 and 1100 used coils with the same electrical characteristics, which were made to run at ~9V. In the 1100 the resistor would be in place to limit the coil current at 12V: coil protection, as you say. Probably Honda didn't see the need to redesign the coils for the 1100 after they changed to the spark units. But that's separate to the point current issue with the 1000.
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Where to draw power

#22

Post by Sidecar Bob »

The spark unit and points perform the same function, disconnecting the primary winding of the coil from ground so as to cause the collapsing magnetic field that induces a voltage spike in the secondary winding that is high enough to cause the plug to spark.
The resistor, kill switch, coil and current interrupting device (points or spark unit) are in series, which means that the same current flows through all of them regardless of which order they are in. In other words, in a series circuit the effect of any component on the other components is not affected by which one the current flows through first.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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Re: Where to draw power

#23

Post by Rat »

Sidecar Bob wrote:Um.... My '83 did (until I installed 1500 coils).

According to the schematics (see link in my signature) the '80 and '81 did not have resistors but '82 and '83 did.
Sorry for the mixup .... not the first time I’ve got something backwards .... I did say I was adding to the confusion .... but that’s not how I meant it .... :oops: :oops:

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‘14 KLR650 ... not a rat ... yet
‘84 GL1200i ‘R2B6' (Rat to Be 6, the last, adopted by twowings)
My Original 'RAT' was a hybrid '82 CB900/1100F
leggman
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Re: Where to draw power

#24

Post by leggman »

Shadowjack wrote:The ballast resistor is causing that. It's bypassed when you hit the start button, because battery voltage drops when the starter is turning, usually to about 9 volts is the battery is charged properly. Ballasts are in there to keep the points from burning up when the voltage comes back up after the starter stops. Nothing to do with the coils.
Find the black wire from the killswitch that FEEDS the ballast and tie your relay coil to that.
Thanks, Thats what I did.
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Re: Where to draw power

#25

Post by heraldhamster »

Sidecar Bob wrote:The spark unit and points perform the same function...// ... In other words, in a series circuit the effect of any component on the other components is not affected by which one the current flows through first.
thanks, Bob. that's something along the lines of what I was gonna say, although I would've used many, many more words & confusilate everybody in the process.
unless or until one sees a schematic with symbols it's tough to verify. but I like tracing circuits. Kirchoff's Current Law is yer friend.
sorta bulldogged custom 1978 GL1000 - "geekster"
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my original '79 bought in '91 - replacing engine (eventually, maybe someday)

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Shadowjack
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Re: Where to draw power

#26

Post by Shadowjack »

Quick, everybody who's heard of Kirchoff's Law, raise your hand! Me, too, but I've forgotten what it says. 8^)
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Re: Where to draw power

#27

Post by Brant »

Kirchhoff's circuit laws are two equalities that deal with the current and potential difference in the lumped element model of electrical circuits. They were first described in 1845 by German physicist Gustav Kirchhoff. This generalized the work of Georg Ohm and preceded the work of James Clerk Maxwell

Yeah I googled it. The only electrical law I really know is don't touch the wires together if the power is still on.
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